Melissa Spence | Resilient and Strong
Join us for Decadent Care, November 8-9 in Winnipeg, MB:
Melissa shares her journey of growing up in a Christian home within Poplar River First Nation and the challenges she faced in finding her voice in a patriarchal church environment. She delves into her struggle with reconciling her leadership roles in the corporate world versus the church, and how she drew strength from her faith to overcome these obstacles. The conversation touches on themes of reconciliation, both with God and within the community, highlighting the need for open dialogue, respect, and unity among Indigenous and non-Indigenous churches. Melissa's heartfelt stories and insights offer powerful reflections on healing, forgiveness, and the transformative power of Jesus' love.
Timestamps
[03:22] Struggle with inequality in corporate and church.
[07:52] Finding new purpose after confusion and frustration.
[09:41] Reconciliation, love, and working for His love.
[15:32] Call for reformation to heal racial divide.
[18:25] Teenage abandonment, religious blame, and divine love.
[21:29] Assessing gospel living and intimacy with God.
[24:18] Striving for deeper love, service, and discernment.
[29:28] Learning and aligning with missionary vision and ministry.
[30:24] Residential schools aimed to destroy Indigenous identity.
[34:32] Following Jesus's example in everyday life.
[38:44] We show love, kindness, respect, humility. Respect for others' space and honor.
[40:15] Real reconciliation through open and honest dialogue.
[43:39] Joining missionary work, faced personal challenges, encouragement.
[49:26] Embrace God's love, overcome fear, find comfort.
[50:53] In weakness, find strength to be like Jesus.
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Transcript
Reconciliation. What does this mean to you?
Speaker:This is the Journey with Care podcast, where we navigate honest
Speaker:conversations about faith, culture, and loving our neighbors.
Speaker:I am the host, Melvina Gabosch, and I am an indigenous
Speaker:lover of Jesus.
Speaker:Welcome to Journey with Care with Malvina Gabosch, where we are journeying
Speaker:with care. Today, we have Melissa Spence with
Speaker:us in studio. We have Melissa Spence with us. She
Speaker:is a pastor's wife from Blessings Church.
Speaker:She has her own ministry that she is been working on and developing
Speaker:with God. She has a heart for women, a heart for women to rise up,
Speaker:to preach, and to speak, and to, you know, share their stories. She's given
Speaker:many women the opportunity and the stage to
Speaker:speak their truth and to be everything that God has called them to
Speaker:be. Me and Melissa have hosted a women's conference together.
Speaker:So I've known her for a while. She's been such an encouragement in my
Speaker:life, a godly woman in my life, someone that I look up to, and
Speaker:someone that has mentored me in different areas of my walk and of my
Speaker:life with the Lord. So I'm excited to have her in the studio
Speaker:with us today. Hello, Melissa. Hello, Melvina.
Speaker:Well, I'm glad that you're able to join us today. Yes. I'm honored
Speaker:to have I'm exactly a little nervous today, but, you know, I
Speaker:just have some exciting things to share about what the Lord's been
Speaker:doing in my life and just tell my story. I don't really tell it very
Speaker:often, maybe in my church, but there's a select few that
Speaker:actually come regularly to hear it. You have a
Speaker:powerful story, a powerful testimony of what God has done in your
Speaker:life. And I wanted to invite you around the table
Speaker:and just to be able to share that and to share your voice
Speaker:with the rest of the world and and our listeners, our podcast
Speaker:listeners. I feel that your voice is very powerful and
Speaker:God is using it in a mighty way. So thank you for coming
Speaker:and joining us. So tell us a little bit about yourself, and then
Speaker:we'll go into a little bit about ministry. Okay. Well, I
Speaker:come from Poplar River First Nation, which is on the east side of Lake
Speaker:Winnipeg, and it's a remote community fly in. We have a
Speaker:winter road, so I grew up there, pretty sheltered
Speaker:coming out to the city once in a while and traveling in the summer
Speaker:to various camp meetings with my family. So I grew up in
Speaker:a primarily Christian home up until,
Speaker:about my mid teens, when my, my
Speaker:family fell apart. In my teen years, I moved to Winnipeg
Speaker:to, you know, pursue my education and been pretty
Speaker:much at home in Winnipeg. So my upbringing
Speaker:was Christian based, but there was a lot of religion and a lot of patriarchal
Speaker:views. And I kind of suffered through that and it,
Speaker:it took me what, 27 years with the
Speaker:Lord, just trying to navigate who
Speaker:I am. What does the Lord want me to do? He gave me a
Speaker:vision way back when I was a, a young girl and I'm
Speaker:thinking, how is that? And I translate into this patriarchal
Speaker:view that I'm only to be a helper Mhmm.
Speaker:And not really necessarily a leader.
Speaker:And my voice didn't matter as what
Speaker:I was kind of in that environment that my voice didn't
Speaker:matter, and I was a lower than than a man. So I
Speaker:spent a lot of time working behind the scenes and
Speaker:not recognizing that the Lord,
Speaker:you know, the Lord just did a work in me in the last few
Speaker:years, and this took me around. And it's interesting that
Speaker:I I have a professional background, and I worked in the corporate world for
Speaker:about 12 years, prior 2019
Speaker:and my two worlds didn't match up. I
Speaker:kind of felt like I was this one way in the corporate world. I was
Speaker:a manager, kind of worked my way up and had a
Speaker:voice. People respected that voice. But on the other
Speaker:side, in the church world, I didn't have a voice and it
Speaker:didn't really matter. And I just it just felt that
Speaker:way. And it was kind of reinforced really because,
Speaker:although I've been pastoring with my husband, co pastoring, Blessings
Speaker:Church and since was it 2,008 in November?
Speaker:So in November, it'll be 14 years. It it was just this
Speaker:culture that, you know, the men would call the men up. And
Speaker:it was just this culture of just
Speaker:not recognizing that the vast majority of
Speaker:women in are in the churches. There's a majority of women
Speaker:Mhmm. And very small percentage of men. But yet, there's
Speaker:a a big amount of men that are in leadership and not
Speaker:the women. And so I was a kind of woman that was
Speaker:just sitting in the corner getting frustrated
Speaker:because, I'm a leader in, you know, in the secular and
Speaker:in the corporate world, but I wasn't a leader. And I felt
Speaker:like I, I was like pretty much a mouse on the corner or a
Speaker:wildflower. You would call it. Nothing more than a helper.
Speaker:Nothing more than a helper. So, you know,
Speaker:it it got to the point where I got so frustrated. And I said, is
Speaker:this is this what it's supposed to be? I I think I think there's
Speaker:a big disconnect here. And, you know, we were brought up with,
Speaker:religious teachings and and just that bondage of religion
Speaker:to say that, well, you have to just take your lot in
Speaker:life because of what Eve did.
Speaker:Mhmm. But when I read the word of God, I'm thinking,
Speaker:well, Jesus died for all of us. And he set us free
Speaker:Wendi no veil was rent, when he died on that cross.
Speaker:So we have complete access to,
Speaker:our heavenly father. And it just didn't make sense
Speaker:why women were kind of relegated to just being helpers and, you
Speaker:know, to be silent in the church. And and I just
Speaker:thought, okay, so Jesus didn't set us free then.
Speaker:If that's what religion taught us, you're not really free. You're
Speaker:because you're a woman. So I studied and, but then
Speaker:it's reinforced. So after I went through
Speaker:a really tough time in the last 4 or 5
Speaker:years, and I've told my story, but I'm not gonna kind of go
Speaker:into that right now, but, but it it just made
Speaker:me come to this point where, okay, I'm not 2 people
Speaker:anymore. It's gotta be. I'm this way in a
Speaker:corporate world, and it's gotta match up with what is
Speaker:happening in the church. So I started getting my voice
Speaker:back and it was tough. It would it
Speaker:meant changes in my marriage. It meant
Speaker:changes with, my relationships with my children,
Speaker:with my extended family, my immediate family. But it
Speaker:it's about just putting boundaries and really asserting that
Speaker:I am a a woman. Yes. But I'm a child of God.
Speaker:Yes. When we get to heaven, there is no sex. There's no male and female.
Speaker:It's just that on earth we we have, but
Speaker:I'd kind of had to fight through that. And now
Speaker:now I'm just at this place where the Lord I know the
Speaker:Lord's calling me to something greater, and
Speaker:it mind boggles me where the Lord wants to take me. And my reaction to
Speaker:him is just like Moses. Why me? Like Why
Speaker:me, Lord? Yeah. Why me, Lord? I I really don't know how to
Speaker:speak. I'm been kind of in the shadows. So how
Speaker:is this gonna work and how, how is this gonna happen?
Speaker:So it's just this understanding of
Speaker:that, yes, I'm a co pastoring this church,
Speaker:but I have a calling that's, a calling that I
Speaker:didn't quite understand before. And, and that's the reason why
Speaker:I've been so frustrated with how things have been going and
Speaker:how things played out in my life. And just in the
Speaker:last couple of weeks, I I said, okay, lord. Okay.
Speaker:Now I know what you're doing. Because he he brought back the
Speaker:story of Moses, and I really like that story because
Speaker:he tried to make changes and set his people
Speaker:free. But, you know, he tried to do it on his own first.
Speaker:And then the Lord had to take him into a wilderness, and I felt that's
Speaker:where I've been. I've been in the wilderness for a number of years.
Speaker:And did the Lord, you know, talking to me
Speaker:and teaching me and and all this. And then there's this this point where
Speaker:he commissions Moses at the burning bush, that whole
Speaker:experience and this whole conversation. So
Speaker:I just feel that although Moses didn't quite
Speaker:understand, well, how am I gonna free all these
Speaker:all these millions of people out of slavery and
Speaker:no Wendi somebody else. And, you know, that fear and I'm like,
Speaker:well, how is this gonna happen? Because our mind just can't fathom
Speaker:it. So I feel that's where I'm at today. So I'm also
Speaker:a mother of 5 children, and I just became a grandmother
Speaker:a few weeks ago. Congratulations. Thank you.
Speaker:And so yeah. So that's a little bit about my journey
Speaker:and where I'm kind of at. What does
Speaker:reconciliation mean to you? Well,
Speaker:and I I kind of thought about that for quite a bit
Speaker:because it it's actually the lord godfather, our
Speaker:father who actually started the reconciliation process and
Speaker:when he sent his son to die for us. So in
Speaker:my mindset before I used to think that the Lord,
Speaker:sent his son so that he could love us again, but that's not the
Speaker:case, That he actually sent his son because he
Speaker:loved us, not to make him love us.
Speaker:And so there's a lot of a lot in religion, it it
Speaker:teaches you that that we have to work for his
Speaker:love. And that's it just comes out in that story of the prodigal
Speaker:son. Like, we call it the the prodigal son, but I think I'd rather call
Speaker:it the sons, the elder and the prodigal. And so I was
Speaker:kind of like that elder son, who had everything that
Speaker:the father had. He was living in his household and,
Speaker:he was the oldest son, and he had, double portion
Speaker:of the inheritance, but he didn't see that. And, so
Speaker:he was working, and why why, you know, you you see this whole
Speaker:conversation with the elder son and, and the
Speaker:father when they're talking about the prodigal son. Like, you didn't
Speaker:kill the fatted calf for me. And he and the lord
Speaker:said, everything that I have is yours. Yes. And he could have just killed
Speaker:the calf whenever he wanted. Yeah. And so
Speaker:recon reconciliation, I think, is just
Speaker:understanding that Jesus died on the cross for us.
Speaker:Rose was buried and rose again so that
Speaker:we could that he could reveal the father to us.
Speaker:And I think that's where we're kind of at. I
Speaker:think we kind of got into so much religion, and
Speaker:I was caught in that for many, many years. And I tried to pop my
Speaker:head out of, you know, that religion kind of world.
Speaker:And then my, you know, was put right back in because I just didn't
Speaker:understand why Jesus came. And yes, it was
Speaker:all out of love. So reconciliation to me
Speaker:is reconciling to God the father
Speaker:and learning to have that
Speaker:image to to take on his image in how we live
Speaker:our lives and see ourselves. So it's all about the
Speaker:identity in him and what Jesus done for
Speaker:us. So Jesus is a prime example of
Speaker:what we on her here on earth should be where his kingdom is.
Speaker:The kingdom is is us, and we need to
Speaker:be reconstalk him so that God could be glorified. And he can
Speaker:be glorified. Yeah. It is by our
Speaker:love for each other that we will know that we are his
Speaker:disciples, Jesus said. Mhmm. And our
Speaker:unity is the method and message of
Speaker:our care. Yeah. Amen. Amen. And
Speaker:I just love that. And it's when we're in that wilderness, the Lord
Speaker:takes us through this process of just dealing
Speaker:with the issues that have really hindered our relationship with
Speaker:him. And and that's my story is that
Speaker:I didn't trust him as a father. I didn't
Speaker:know who he was. And the reason for it is because
Speaker:of my background. My dad abandoned our family
Speaker:and created a whole new family, and he he dictated
Speaker:And it it took me a long time to reconcile
Speaker:with my dad. And and it was
Speaker:upon as when he died, and through that process of taking care of
Speaker:him and honoring him as my father, and understanding
Speaker:that he had the same issue I had. And it it
Speaker:really had an impact on me when he passed away 3 years ago.
Speaker:And it's just to show this process of this working through
Speaker:that. And then there was that barrier of
Speaker:not trusting. And because I didn't trust my own dad that
Speaker:I had this trust issue with God, God, the father. Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah. And so that, you know, in society today, there's this this
Speaker:word that's been thrown around reconciliation. And
Speaker:sadly, it's just been thrown around everywhere. Right? So I I I feel that there
Speaker:is 2 different ways to look at it. It's reconciliation in a
Speaker:secular world Mhmm. And then reconciliation back to
Speaker:Christ. Right? So what are the two differences for you,
Speaker:and how can we bring those 2 together?
Speaker:Well, first of all, is we actually in order to have
Speaker:true reconciliation, we actually need to know and have a
Speaker:relationship with God the father and to be reconciled
Speaker:with him. It's not him that left. It's
Speaker:us through our sin. Yes. And and once you
Speaker:start having a relationship with god, the father, and you start having
Speaker:this identity in him, and I am a, my son or daughter,
Speaker:then, you know, through this relationship and this process
Speaker:of developing a relationship that's full of intimacy, you
Speaker:know, speaking to him, walking with him in daily life,
Speaker:then he transforms you into his image. And
Speaker:so, so you you start to see other people the
Speaker:way he sees them. So in the secular,
Speaker:you you have to earn respect. Yes.
Speaker:But in true reconciliation, you honor one
Speaker:another. Yes. And, and respect is part of
Speaker:that. And so you build together, you build together,
Speaker:you walk along each side and if somebody falls down, you lift them
Speaker:up. And so that that's what I think
Speaker:is happening. And right now there's such,
Speaker:racism and it's been ingrained because of
Speaker:the history of our of our nation. Right?
Speaker:So our people have been so marginalized, so made to feel
Speaker:little. I think we have to have a reformation in
Speaker:our in the way our churches are. And I'm not
Speaker:talking just the building. I'm talking about reformation of each of
Speaker:us individually that we be reconciled truly,
Speaker:and not be afraid to just jump in daddy's lap and allow
Speaker:him to heal you in every way and make you whole so that you could
Speaker:actually walk in fullness and with peace and
Speaker:joy in the holy ghost and have that relationship and
Speaker:walk along side with him and co laboring
Speaker:with him. Yeah. It's been reconciled back to Christ. But what what do we get
Speaker:when we when we're reconciled to him? We get joy. We get peace.
Speaker:Mhmm. We get we get love. We get healing. We find our
Speaker:identity. Yeah. You know, I think that's where I found my my true
Speaker:reconciliation when I was reconciled back to him. Mhmm. And then being reconciled
Speaker:back to him, I was able to reconcile with others. Mhmm. Because I found that
Speaker:peace and I found that love and I found that healing. Without that,
Speaker:I feel like that's where we're missing out. That's where we're missing the mark. You
Speaker:know? Because if we can't be reconciled back to Christ in his wholeness
Speaker:and and given all those things that he died for, he died for us. He
Speaker:died that we would we would be whole. He would he died that we would
Speaker:have peace. He died that we would we would know who we are, that we
Speaker:were sons and daughters of God. That's why he came and shed his blood, that
Speaker:we would be reconciled back to our identity, back to him. Mhmm.
Speaker:And without How can we honor each other
Speaker:if we can't even honor ourselves? Exactly. And it says
Speaker:all in words, it's it talking it talks about,
Speaker:like, love your neighbor as yourself. So we Or even
Speaker:greater. Or greater. Or even greater. Right. And so but it's it's
Speaker:part of loving yourself and accepting that the
Speaker:Lord made you the way you are. And yes, there's
Speaker:some issues because we're all brought up in environments that are
Speaker:not perfect with parents that, tried their best, but, you
Speaker:know, missed a mark in some areas, while others areas, they
Speaker:did really well. And I I really thank the Lord
Speaker:for my parents in those early years because they instilled in
Speaker:me to have a relationship with God.
Speaker:And when we're in church that were inside, we weren't
Speaker:outside playing with all the other children. And
Speaker:that even as children that we are to serve the Lord. Yeah. So you grew
Speaker:up in a in a primary Christian home Mhmm. Most of your life or all
Speaker:of your life? Right up until my mid teens. And then my my
Speaker:parents, separated and my dad went off to
Speaker:create an another family. And and and through that, through
Speaker:the abandonment, I I blamed the Lord.
Speaker:And and that was because I
Speaker:I just had this this religious mindset,
Speaker:that was taught that, you know, we don't have any
Speaker:power and authority that we are to beg for it. That we're,
Speaker:that the Lord is this big powerful God, that if you do anything
Speaker:wrong, he straps you and and pulls away from you until you
Speaker:smarten up. But I realize now
Speaker:that the lord has loved me, and
Speaker:and no amount of whatever I did is not gonna take his love for
Speaker:me. His love is so unconditional. It is. It's so unconditional.
Speaker:And I was talking to another, yeah, woman, the
Speaker:other day, and we were having a conversation. She had a similar story
Speaker:to mine. And being an elder
Speaker:son, you kind of think that you have to work for love. Mhmm.
Speaker:So we're both workaholics and, well, I'm no longer a workaholic.
Speaker:I'm learning to rest in him, and to co labor with him
Speaker:means that he's the one that guides me. He's he's
Speaker:ahead of me, and he's taking me along this journey. And when
Speaker:I'm in intimate relationship with him, he has this,
Speaker:it's just just a dynamic of that
Speaker:he has the authority, but he's given us that
Speaker:as well. Right? That power.
Speaker:I kinda digressed there. What was the question again? I don't
Speaker:remember. We went on a little rabbit
Speaker:trail. I know. It's fine looking rabbit trail. Yo. I love those kind of
Speaker:conversations too when we're we're able to just, you know, just talk about
Speaker:about everything else. Here at Care Impact and
Speaker:I think the the heart of Journey with Care is to
Speaker:connect and equip the whole church to effectively journey in
Speaker:community with children and families in hard places. From your experience,
Speaker:what would it look like for the church to journey with care with others?
Speaker:Well, I really believe that we all have to be reconciled
Speaker:with with God through the work of the cross, through
Speaker:the work of Jesus. Like he was sent to die for us,
Speaker:to be buried, and then to be resurrected,
Speaker:and he sent the holy spirit. So if we
Speaker:could just get to that point, and it's for everybody, it's for
Speaker:children, it's for parents, and it's for,
Speaker:you know, elders, it's for everybody. And you could start from
Speaker:wherever you're at. Once you get to that point is
Speaker:once you understand that he he has unconditional love for you
Speaker:and that we could trust him to lead us and that he has
Speaker:so much for us. But he wants to us to live
Speaker:abundantly, but he also wants us to bear fruit. Yes.
Speaker:So we have to be fruitful. Well, what what does that mean? Well
Speaker:so I had to kinda do go through this assessment of, k.
Speaker:Am I living the gospel the way Jesus wanted us to
Speaker:live it? And I started thinking, okay, did do
Speaker:I pray for people? And are they healed?
Speaker:Are they delivered? Do I walk with signs and wonders?
Speaker:And I like, my mouth dropped and I'm, you know, and it just
Speaker:humbled me. And, I said, well, how do you get that?
Speaker:Well, it's all about relationship with God. And
Speaker:that to be truly intimate with him is that you talk to him, you
Speaker:you spend time with him and he talks to you and you listen to him
Speaker:and he'll teach you and talk to you in
Speaker:many different ways. And once you get to know his
Speaker:voice, then that's all that matters
Speaker:because then I'm not striving anymore. It's him
Speaker:leading me. Yes. Yeah. Your trust is in him. And my trust is in
Speaker:him, and my identity is in him. So I I just
Speaker:go back to the story of when I was turning 40
Speaker:and my husband said announced a few weeks before, I
Speaker:wanna give you a party. I'm like, no.
Speaker:I was screaming. You know, I literally got so angry with him for
Speaker:even suggesting to have a birthday party for me.
Speaker:And it was through talking to him later and he was saying, why are you
Speaker:so upset? And he's, and, and it all came down to this. I
Speaker:was so afraid of being rejected. Like, if he invites
Speaker:somebody and they don't come. And he said, whoever is
Speaker:meant to be there will be there, and, you don't worry about the
Speaker:rest. So it's about trying to have
Speaker:that identity in him. It just gives you so much
Speaker:freedom because what really matters is what he thinks about me. And
Speaker:I know he loves me. He adores me. Yes. He his
Speaker:face shined upon me. He gives me favor. Like,
Speaker:that's all that matters. And and yes, people are gonna be cruel.
Speaker:Why? Because they don't have that same relationship,
Speaker:and they just need to have that process, to go through
Speaker:that process to become an his image and the same thing,
Speaker:you know, have that relationship with him so that they're not
Speaker:having these insecurities in their life. What are some
Speaker:pieces of hope you can share with our listeners that
Speaker:reconciliation is happening? Well,
Speaker:I see that there's this transformation happening. I think we're
Speaker:starting to tear up and kinda recognizing
Speaker:religion when we see it. The celebritism,
Speaker:the focus on making names for ourselves,
Speaker:and that that's being torn down because it's not
Speaker:working anymore. Yeah. It's not working. No, it's not working. We
Speaker:have to come to that place where the Lord will get us to
Speaker:that place where we have the same kind of love that he
Speaker:has for our people. And now we can look at a person and
Speaker:love them so much And that the Lord will say, go and do
Speaker:this and say this or or do this thing and
Speaker:then pray with them and you say this, or you could be in the service
Speaker:and you have this discernment. And then you, you just go and
Speaker:pick up somebody from the crowd, bring him to the altar. And then you
Speaker:find out later that they were being a little scared to
Speaker:go up. And so that's that fear of
Speaker:intimacy. I think we as a church, and I think it's all
Speaker:comes down to that it is happening. People are there
Speaker:is a remnant of people that are just so hungry for the Lord
Speaker:that we understand and coming to the knowledge that what we've
Speaker:been trying to do isn't working anymore. And the whole
Speaker:focus, our focus should be on relationship with
Speaker:God and let him guide us and prepare us so that he
Speaker:we're more than worthy to go and do his work that but
Speaker:we have to be sent. Yes. There are so many people that are
Speaker:just out there just sending themselves, and then you see it
Speaker:all over Facebook. You you see it in conversations.
Speaker:Oh, I'm out the I'm going to this place, but I need money.
Speaker:You know, if you are in a relationship with God,
Speaker:then he sends you, he will bring a provision and he will provide for you.
Speaker:Yes. What's his vision? He'll he'll provide he'll provide for it.
Speaker:Right? So I guess our conversation is taking this
Speaker:kind of, like, reconciliation kind of tone to it. Mhmm. And so
Speaker:I guess the question that I do have is, do you see reconciliation
Speaker:amongst the churches? Like, so say, there's a big population of
Speaker:indigenous churches Mhmm. In Manitoba, in Saskatchewan,
Speaker:in Alberta. There's a big population of indigenous churches. I I don't
Speaker:know, about the relationship with the main, I
Speaker:guess, the bigger churches, the capital c church,
Speaker:the white churches, I guess you would say. Where do you feel
Speaker:that reconciliation is missing? How can we
Speaker:bring reconciliation to the body of Christ
Speaker:within the church Mhmm. In the context of non indigenous and
Speaker:indigenous? Okay. Well, I think we've kind of been
Speaker:segregated. And I remember going to
Speaker:a well known church, way back in
Speaker:probably in the early 2000, going to this huge
Speaker:church and walking in the doors and a a person coming up to
Speaker:me and my family, my husband, and my children, and
Speaker:saying in in all, greeting us. But then saying, you know,
Speaker:there's, aboriginal churches elsewhere.
Speaker:And I was, a bit offended. And, I
Speaker:said, well, it's just isn't this a church of God? Maybe hurt. It Yeah.
Speaker:Because, like, hurt. I think offense offense comes from a a place of hurt.
Speaker:It's a rejection. Right? Yeah. So and I'm thinking, no.
Speaker:We came to this church, and so we went and sat down.
Speaker:But I've also attended our affiliate conference,
Speaker:annual conference that they had a few years ago, and
Speaker:they they did this presentation, and we're one of the
Speaker:recognized Aboriginal churches under this affiliated
Speaker:body. And they wanted to have a meeting with,
Speaker:Aboriginal representatives that were attending, but
Speaker:it just almost came down to this, that they want us
Speaker:to to talk about, okay, what do you wanna see doing?
Speaker:But there wasn't a reconciliation attitude at that time.
Speaker:It it wasn't true. It says, no. Let's
Speaker:us try, and we'll bring people together and let them talk and let
Speaker:us hear them, but there's no real action. And and
Speaker:that's the same thing that is happening.
Speaker:But I think it's time for our Aboriginal people. And I remember
Speaker:being so frustrated and kind of disgusted with this whole thing. And then when
Speaker:you went to the conference, it was about missions and and
Speaker:there was nothing about Aboriginal people, and yet they had an
Speaker:umbrella of Aboriginal ministries. So there's a
Speaker:big disconnect between the churches. And so we're often
Speaker:seen as people that need help. Mhmm. But
Speaker:yet we are a people that are resilient and strong. I think
Speaker:there's a move now that the Lord is pulling these people,
Speaker:pulling us out with the voice and knowing who we are
Speaker:in him that are gonna, you know, kinda shake things
Speaker:up and say, you know what? We're gonna need to come together hand
Speaker:in hand. You need us and we need you. Yes. And it's an
Speaker:equal partnership. Right? Equal partnership. It's not you coming over
Speaker:me and telling me what it is to be a Christian Mhmm. Or what it
Speaker:is to be in ministry or what it is to be a missionary. Mhmm.
Speaker:It's taking, the strengths that I have as an
Speaker:indigenous Christian leader and taking your
Speaker:strengths and bringing them together. Yeah. Exactly. Wendi
Speaker:god called me out into this form of ministry, there was a lot of things
Speaker:that I had to learn from coming from what we're used to at our
Speaker:indigenous kind of church and whatnot. I had to learn, you know,
Speaker:what it is to be a missionary, what it is to
Speaker:what this vision is from this group of people, You know, what it is
Speaker:to do ministry. And sometimes, you know, I've come against this thing where it's like
Speaker:it feels like the mission or the vision
Speaker:or, the ministry isn't aligning with each other. Mhmm. But
Speaker:really, it is because it's the work of the kingdom. Mhmm. You know? So we're
Speaker:doing the work of the kingdom. We're not doing the work of our own
Speaker:organizations, our own ministries, our own name. Yeah. You know? We're
Speaker:doing the work of the kingdom. Mhmm. We're we're going out there and
Speaker:we're reaching the lost. And, you know, we're we're bringing what we
Speaker:know to be true as indigenous people is, you know, we know that
Speaker:brokenness. We know that hurt. We know that shame. We know we know what
Speaker:it is to be broken, and we know what it is to be found. Mhmm.
Speaker:And I feel like, when residential schools happen, that was the purpose
Speaker:of it was to kill our identity, to kill who we were and to
Speaker:rob us of something, to rob us of of that. Mhmm. But god
Speaker:is faithful. He is faithful and he is just, and he's
Speaker:building up this remnant of strong indigenous leaders.
Speaker:Mhmm. And he's bringing them around the table, but not around the table
Speaker:for, you know, the other churches or the other denominations to
Speaker:have pity on Mhmm. But to bring them into unity
Speaker:because for years, there's been indigenous churches
Speaker:around Manitoba, Alberta, you know, and so on, and Canada.
Speaker:You know, I was I was sitting around a, table the a couple weeks ago,
Speaker:and, you know, my my in laws, Willard Gabosh, has
Speaker:been a pastor, and he started one of the first indigenous churches in
Speaker:Winnipeg Mhmm. Over 30 years ago. And I was part of his church. And you
Speaker:were part of his church. And there's so many of us indigenous people that have
Speaker:come out of that church. And I sat around this table of women that
Speaker:love the lord, truly love the lord. They've been serving the lord. They've been raised
Speaker:in church, and they had no clue who this person was that I was talking
Speaker:about. Mhmm. And you see the separation from, you know,
Speaker:the indigenous population to the capital
Speaker:c churches. Mhmm. And and I asked the Lord. I'm like, okay. Well, there has
Speaker:to be a reconciliation among us first Mhmm. Before we can
Speaker:go out there and ask people to reconcile back to Christ or back to
Speaker:us or whatnot. Right? We have to, as the body of Christ,
Speaker:be reconciled back to each other first. That will be the the
Speaker:example. The example of true reconciliation is when the body of
Speaker:Christ can be reconciled back to each other. But first, we have to
Speaker:be reconciled back to Christ. Exactly. And I I think that's
Speaker:where my passion is now that I've gone went through this whole
Speaker:journey of this finding out and just throwing out all of
Speaker:the religious stuff that kind of were intertwined.
Speaker:And so now I pop my head out and I'm not going back
Speaker:down. I'm not letting anyone push me down. You're not going you're not going
Speaker:back into the corner. Right? No. I'm not. Maybe in the corner.
Speaker:No. No more. And and and that's what's exciting.
Speaker:So I I think we're just we're at the
Speaker:cusp of a great harvest. Yes. And, and
Speaker:because that there's gonna be a recon well, there it is.
Speaker:There's a reconciliation happening amongst the body of Christ.
Speaker:Yes. And we are much as part of it and an
Speaker:important component of it, but we're we're gonna be like 1.
Speaker:And so there's this mobilization. I I see this mobilization
Speaker:of people coming to,
Speaker:back to a relationship with God, never mind a religion.
Speaker:Relationship, relationship, and relationship with God, knowing
Speaker:who he is, how he he does things, and and
Speaker:just seeing him in everything. Cool
Speaker:laboring with him means that he he's the
Speaker:one doing the sailing. We're just coming alongside him and
Speaker:He's guiding us. He's directing us. Right? Yeah. Where are his hands?
Speaker:And, and doing the work, and he he gets all the glory for
Speaker:it. So we're being mobilized. So, basically, we're coming. We're
Speaker:coming together. And I, and, and now we're just getting into
Speaker:this mobilization and, and I think it's just gonna speed up as,
Speaker:as more and more indigenous people start finding their voice. Yes.
Speaker:Yes. You know, I feel like, you know, the enemy came to try to steal,
Speaker:kill, and destroy our voice. Mhmm. You know, but I feel like there
Speaker:is, you know, a group that are so connected to God,
Speaker:that love him. Mhmm. That, trust in him, that built that
Speaker:relationship, that are gonna be the forerunners of what
Speaker:real reconciliation is gonna look like. Mhmm. You know, because like we
Speaker:shared in the beginning, there's 2 different kind of views of reconciliation in this world.
Speaker:Right? Mhmm. But first and foremost, you know, as Christians, as
Speaker:believers, and we have to be first reconciled back to Christ. And that's why he
Speaker:sent his son to die on the cross, that we would be reconciled back to
Speaker:him. Yeah. And, and Jesus, his whole life is a
Speaker:template for us and to, you know, get out into the
Speaker:streets, the highways and byways, having dinner with the
Speaker:publicans. Yeah. And and getting into
Speaker:those spheres of influence wherever we are. And it's not just in the
Speaker:4 walls. It's about, marketplace ministry. Wherever the
Speaker:Lord puts you, then you start having an influence
Speaker:on policy, on even in the an
Speaker:environment and, you know, setting the stage for
Speaker:healthy workplaces. Healthy healthy workplaces, healthy
Speaker:collaboration. Mhmm. How would the indigenous
Speaker:population of church, of the body of Christ, and then the capital
Speaker:c, or the white, or how would we suggest
Speaker:that we could come alongside each other and co
Speaker:labor together with Christ in a way
Speaker:of unity and equal ship? Well,
Speaker:I think it comes to the point where as we
Speaker:had identify that we have strengths in
Speaker:Christ, right? We, we have that power and authority that is given
Speaker:us, and we are to be bold
Speaker:and courageous. And so we have to kick
Speaker:that old pattern of rejection and this,
Speaker:okay, we're rejected. Never mind. Mhmm. And start,
Speaker:pushing forward and being fearless And use our voices. And using
Speaker:our voices and really call out,
Speaker:the racism for what it is. Because there is racism
Speaker:in the body of Christ. Yes. It's pretty surreal. It it's There
Speaker:is. Yeah. But that's gonna change because God is in control.
Speaker:Amen. Amen. Yep. I get excited about this. Speak
Speaker:that. That's gonna change because God is in control. In what way would you
Speaker:coach someone indigenous or non indigenous in your
Speaker:context that is interested in reconciliation, but does
Speaker:not know how or where to begin? Well, I
Speaker:think we had another church that we kinda
Speaker:the Lord kinda put us in together, but
Speaker:it kinda went on the wayside. But I think it is
Speaker:it's developing a relationship with each other. And
Speaker:relationship means that you, you sit down, you, you have
Speaker:supper with them. You start having a dialogue that's open and
Speaker:honest and be in a safe place to
Speaker:say what you need to say without being offended. Because I think that's where it
Speaker:needs to be. And, we gotta be people that are unfundable
Speaker:when we're going after reconciliation. And to be those
Speaker:people, I feel like we need to be people that are healed. Mhmm. You know,
Speaker:that have gone through the healing, and the healing is a process.
Speaker:It doesn't happen overnight. No. It doesn't. You know, it's sometimes very
Speaker:dirty work, you know, to be healed. Right? Like, because we have to dig and
Speaker:we have to go into those places and things have to be rooted up. Yeah.
Speaker:Well and it says it says in the words, that we are to be
Speaker:wise as serpent and harmless with doves. Yes. But it's
Speaker:also when I talk about being unoffendable, we ourselves
Speaker:can't go into meetings to offend. Mhmm.
Speaker:So we have to do it out of love. We have to honor that person.
Speaker:They may not have it all together or or may they just
Speaker:don't understand how to even connect with us and to understand
Speaker:that we may have triggers, but it's the same thing with
Speaker:them. And we also whatever they're going
Speaker:through, love will cover a multitude of all sins. Yes. So
Speaker:that, so even if they say things
Speaker:wrong, we we, out of love, could correct them, but they can't get
Speaker:offended either. So it's both ways. And I think that's
Speaker:the coming around the table with this mindset of
Speaker:we both deserve to be here. We all deserve to be here. Yeah. We're
Speaker:not just asking you to the table. You have a seat at the table. Mhmm.
Speaker:You know, I was having a conversation with with someone a couple weeks ago,
Speaker:and that was one of the things that I think I fear with this whole
Speaker:reconciliation thing is, you know, as, men and
Speaker:women of God, as the body of Christ, we're directed to show love. Mhmm. We're
Speaker:directed to and that's our hearts. Right? We carry the heart of the
Speaker:father. Mhmm. So in all things, we we show love. We show
Speaker:kindness. We show, you know, respect and humility. Right?
Speaker:And so when we're having these hard conversations and we're talking
Speaker:about healing and we're talking about rejection and we're talking about these things that
Speaker:were put in place to harm us and to kill us and to hurt
Speaker:us. When we're talking about these things, I think the people that are
Speaker:inviting us in to give us, you know, to give us that space
Speaker:also need to be respected and, you know, be
Speaker:honored because they're they are opening up. Right? They are opening up their
Speaker:their space and inviting us in. So one of those things that I'm I'm worried
Speaker:I was worried about was people to go in in that angry state
Speaker:still. Or in in that trauma state still and be like, it
Speaker:is my time now. It is my time to say what I you know? And
Speaker:you have to listen and You have to listen. You know? And and And just
Speaker:go on this whole rant. Yes. Yeah. Because, you know, I I work as a
Speaker:missionary in in the inner city, and I have
Speaker:met some awesome, awesome people that
Speaker:serve the kingdom of God and love people. And their
Speaker:heart is to see reconciliation and their heart is to see indigenous
Speaker:leaders rise up. But sometimes, there are
Speaker:other people that don't carry that heart. Right? Like, there's just
Speaker:there's all different categories of people and all different places of healing, all different
Speaker:places of the journey that they're on. And I just don't want
Speaker:us to keep hurting one another. Mhmm. You
Speaker:know? To keep hurting one one another in the lack of knowledge or the
Speaker:lack of identity or the lack of reconciliation, true
Speaker:reconciliation to the father. And so that's one of my hopes is
Speaker:that, you know, when these doors start to open up and these conversations
Speaker:start to happen, and one of my hopes with Journey with Care is
Speaker:to give dialogue, you know, to these conversations and to
Speaker:give a space where we can have them and, have
Speaker:true honest conversations. And to have true honest conversations are not
Speaker:gonna be easy. Right? No. So but if we all come in with
Speaker:this humility and the love of God, those offenses,
Speaker:you know, won't stand a chance to what God really wants to do. Mhmm.
Speaker:Yeah. And we have to tear those walls down of offenses.
Speaker:And when there's an an offensive spirit,
Speaker:it really prevents people from actually
Speaker:hearing from God. So we need to tear those the walls down of
Speaker:offense and forgive, and we just have to forgive. And
Speaker:then from there, through the love of God, start working
Speaker:together. How would you say that we can start doing
Speaker:that, tearing those walls down? How would we do that? Well, we need to be
Speaker:delivered. We need to be delivered, set free, and
Speaker:sanctified. Exactly. And so and
Speaker:be healed and be made whole. And, yes, it is a
Speaker:process, but as painful as it is, sometimes
Speaker:you just have to get down to the roots and pull those roots out.
Speaker:And that's where the true freedom is. And there's just such
Speaker:joy in being free of all those
Speaker:roots and, insecurity of
Speaker:always seeing rejection everywhere. There's it's a such
Speaker:freedom in this it's actually less stress free.
Speaker:What would it look like to journey with care in this context, in your
Speaker:context? Well well, when we are
Speaker:made whole, we we naturally tend to wanna care for others.
Speaker:And so if we see an injustice, then we'll step forward and
Speaker:and do something about it and be that voice, be that advocate.
Speaker:And right now, we just have to get an alignment with God and
Speaker:his will Yes. For our lives. And he's all, he's given
Speaker:us a vision. He's given each one of us a destiny and he has a
Speaker:work for each one of us. We have to align with him first.
Speaker:And it, it all comes down to that. And you know, every, every story
Speaker:is gonna be different, but that's the beauty of it. Yes. That's the
Speaker:beauty of it. Yeah. What is one thing you wish non
Speaker:indigenous Christians would understand about your
Speaker:story? I think I think
Speaker:people have to understand that if when they see an angry person and
Speaker:then there's another person that comes in angry, then just
Speaker:understand that they were been triggered. There's a trigger there,
Speaker:and it all comes down to and for me as a indigenous
Speaker:woman, colonization kind of
Speaker:really took the role of the woman away. There was an
Speaker:important role of indigenous women too.
Speaker:They were the people that made the decisions, and they
Speaker:were just as much part of the leadership, and they were
Speaker:honored and for their voice. So this is
Speaker:just a natural progression of the Lord kind of
Speaker:putting us back into that because he, he loved us.
Speaker:Yeah. Speaking about being triggered, you know, when I first,
Speaker:joined the missionary field about 3 years
Speaker:ago, I was called into a position to be a community
Speaker:minister. And I came in broken. I came in, you know, in with
Speaker:places that, you know, god still wanted to root up and to heal. And
Speaker:so, you know, these people surrounded me and loved me and cared for me and
Speaker:and wanted to encourage me and build me up to be what god has has
Speaker:wanted me to be. But there was there was there was these times where
Speaker:I would get triggered and, things would would happen.
Speaker:And and, you know, this one time I remember one of my
Speaker:superiors over me had messaged me and was like, Melvina,
Speaker:maybe you shouldn't be, you know, having 1 on ones in your car.
Speaker:This and this and that. And and this person saw it on my Facebook. Right?
Speaker:So I I immediately, messaged back and was like, I
Speaker:don't appreciate my Facebook being used to reprimand me. You know,
Speaker:my personal Facebook used to reprimand me. And he replied back to
Speaker:me. He said, I'm not trying to reprimand you. I'm trying to care for
Speaker:you and make sure that we're able to continue doing
Speaker:ministry, you know, the way that God is asking us to do ministry so you
Speaker:don't get in trouble. Basically, he was trying to care for me that I don't
Speaker:get in trouble. Mhmm. And I didn't see it that way. And I had
Speaker:to stop and I and, you know, I immediately just I I was triggered. And
Speaker:then so I just reacted in that offense. And I had to ask the
Speaker:Lord, like, okay. Well, why did I get offended like that? Why did that come
Speaker:out of me like that? And then so he took me on a journey
Speaker:where, when I was younger, everything I did was wrong.
Speaker:Mhmm. You know? Well, and and that's what's with
Speaker:the residential school, it's all come down to
Speaker:we were never trained. Yes. And our the residential school
Speaker:survivors were never trained. They were hit. They were screamed
Speaker:at. They were and so until they got it right. Mhmm. So
Speaker:it just passed on. And so I think with
Speaker:re, conciliation, I think there's gonna be a lot of training.
Speaker:A lot of training. Yes. But also a lot of, and I I really,
Speaker:really respect where I was at that time and the leadership that I was
Speaker:under was that they were able to see that, and they were
Speaker:able to come alongside me. That even though I lashed out
Speaker:Mhmm. They were able to show me grace because that's what
Speaker:God is. God is grace. Well, yeah. And unconditional
Speaker:love. Unconditional love. Yeah. People were sent to
Speaker:to you in that time to To teach me. Yeah. And to help me through
Speaker:that process of, like, figuring out what those triggers are and what are those
Speaker:roots. Right? And so I I truly believe that
Speaker:the church, the body of Christ have such power.
Speaker:We hold such influence to come alongside each other with that
Speaker:same grace that God has shown us and to extend that
Speaker:Mhmm. To extend that to others and walk alongside them in that healing.
Speaker:Because reconciliation isn't gonna be easy. No. It's not. And,
Speaker:but it's it's vital. And, there's just no way
Speaker:around it. Yeah. There's no way around it. You know?
Speaker:Yeah. I really appreciated, the leader that
Speaker:was over me that time and and really got me to search my heart.
Speaker:And it's training our minds. Right? Because our minds were programmed to
Speaker:think a certain way, especially when when we deal with rejection or abandonment.
Speaker:Mhmm. Our minds see things negatively. They see you
Speaker:know, I used to see the the cup, you know, the glass that's sitting in
Speaker:front of you as half empty. Mhmm. You know, that's how I used to see
Speaker:it. Now I see it as it's half full. You know, you got a lot
Speaker:of water there. Yeah. And I I just remember, I will just share this
Speaker:one story about my journey. One of my little journeys, I worked
Speaker:for this particular lady, her name is Tracy,
Speaker:for about all my nursing career. And I remember the first time I
Speaker:met her, she hugged me, and
Speaker:I never got hugged before. Like and you're like, why are you touching me? Why
Speaker:are you touching me? Like, I was stiff as a board and she just laughed
Speaker:it off, you know, every time I saw her. And then, so we would attend
Speaker:these meetings and that was a a young nurse, just starting out my
Speaker:career and she was our my tribal nursing officer.
Speaker:And we would go to meetings. So we'd have to come all into meetings with
Speaker:all these other nurses from other communities in our area and,
Speaker:come into the city of Winnipeg and meet together. And
Speaker:I would try and figure out ways to get away from her, but she
Speaker:would come find me. And it was just like You'd avoid
Speaker:her avoid her and try to go this way. Oh, yeah. Or leave a little
Speaker:early, but she'll find me in the bathroom. She'll come chasing me down the
Speaker:hall. And I thought, you know what? And I I told her. I said, you
Speaker:know, you wore me down. And so
Speaker:if you everybody knows me now, I like tugging. I I just hug people.
Speaker:But you see, that's the kind of love is she knew that I needed
Speaker:that. And she's just a loving person, so and yet
Speaker:she's not a child of God, but the Lord still used her. So
Speaker:now I'm I'm probably gonna be that person running up. Like, people try
Speaker:and run out the door and I'll say, come here. Come here. Like, you know,
Speaker:with my hands. Give me because we all need love. Yeah. We all need we
Speaker:all need that affection. And I think that's what we all are, you know, we
Speaker:all desire. We all striving for is that is that love and
Speaker:acceptance and, you know, that we're, you know, we're not just here on
Speaker:Earth, but there's a purpose and there's a, you know, there's someone out there that
Speaker:wants to hug us and chase us down. Yeah. Exactly. And,
Speaker:and I I just love it. So, basically, just
Speaker:just love us the way the Lord would love us. And, whatever our
Speaker:reaction and whatever whenever we're triggered, just love us anyway. And that's what peep my
Speaker:message would be. Well well, thank you for that one. But
Speaker:what word of encouragement would you like to share with other
Speaker:indigenous listeners? Well, I
Speaker:believe,
Speaker:my words of encouragement is really get in
Speaker:relationship with God. Don't allow fear,
Speaker:because our, I guess, our current group, you know, with our past
Speaker:traumas and intergenerational trauma, it it made
Speaker:us fear God and, that he was this person
Speaker:that was gonna like, whatever we do, you you can go near
Speaker:him. But to be reconciled with him is
Speaker:he loves us. He wants whenever we're going through a rough
Speaker:time, just jump in his lap. Let him allow him to
Speaker:comfort you, sing to you, sing you a lullaby. Let him
Speaker:stroke your hair. Let him let him tell tell you that
Speaker:everything is gonna be okay because he's, you know, it that's
Speaker:just so comforting. But that's that intimate relationship
Speaker:that we're talking about. Get to know him the way
Speaker:Jesus knew him. And he he came to
Speaker:earth to reveal the father. And
Speaker:see, Jesus did whatever the, the Lord told him to,
Speaker:and he also had that character of God for the
Speaker:people. My encouragement is, you know, just jump
Speaker:in father's lap. Don't be afraid to just get in
Speaker:connection with him. And that's where everything will originate. If you
Speaker:do that, I will let everything else will fall into place for you.
Speaker:Me of in 2nd Corinthians, Paul tells the church that in our weakness, he's made
Speaker:strong. Mhmm. You know, and that just gives me reassurance that I can be
Speaker:weak, that I
Speaker:can, I can fail and I cannot have it all together? And I, you know,
Speaker:I'm a, I'm a work in progress. Right. Right. I'm, I'm, I'm striving
Speaker:for perfection. You know, it's to be more like Jesus every day when I
Speaker:wake up that even in my weakness and even in my mistakes, I can
Speaker:come to him as I am. And that's when his
Speaker:strength will be revealed. So like you said, you can just jump in his lap
Speaker:and just, you know, tell him everything because he knows us. Right? He
Speaker:knows that the hairs on our head. He knows the thoughts that we think
Speaker:before we think them. He knows our hurts. He knows the things that we hide
Speaker:from the rest of the world. Mhmm. He knows those things already, and
Speaker:he just wants us to trust him with them Yeah. And to go with him
Speaker:and just to sit on his lap and just to tell him, this is what
Speaker:I'm struggling with. This is what I'm battling with. This is the insecurity that I
Speaker:have. This is how I'm feeling. This is you know? And and once
Speaker:we do that in our weakness, when we're able to be weak
Speaker:to him and we're able to come to him in that weakness, that's when his
Speaker:strength will be. Exactly. And when his
Speaker:strengths is revealed, you just get, you just get up knowing, oh,
Speaker:hey. Jesus got my back. Yeah. He he has me. He has
Speaker:me. He's holding my hand. And when you know that man, you can walk in
Speaker:that boldness. You can walk in that calling, in that authority, in
Speaker:that god given right as sons and daughters.
Speaker:And and just go ahead and love those that hurt us, and then we could
Speaker:pray for them. And, you know, just pray that they would be
Speaker:come into that revelation of who he is and who they are in
Speaker:him and just know that they are loved too. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker:So as, as a people of God, we, we have to work together
Speaker:and it got so lonely. And that's one of my,
Speaker:my, visions is to set up a network I've already talked
Speaker:about. Yes. And, putting that together and this
Speaker:learning to support one another. I think that's totally
Speaker:lost, you know, learning how to just come to that place where you
Speaker:could talk to somebody about the struggles and get encouragement,
Speaker:you know, and pray together and, and teach and, you
Speaker:know, just support one another. Those that are in the front lines. Yes.
Speaker:Well, I encourage you in that to, to work towards that.
Speaker:You shared that vision with me a while back, and I think that
Speaker:we need that as women. We need that as women in ministry. We
Speaker:need that that friendship and that sisterhood and and and being able to come
Speaker:alongside each other and support each other and encourage each other. Mhmm. You
Speaker:know, so I bless you in that. I know that once you put your hands
Speaker:to it, it's gonna prosper because that's the word of God. Amen. Amen.
Speaker:So I thank you, Melissa Spence. She is, the
Speaker:co pastor of Blessings Church on what's the address?
Speaker:621 College Avenue in Winnipeg. 621 College Avenue in
Speaker:Winnipeg. Her and her husband, Warren Spence, lead the church there.
Speaker:It's a beautiful church. I would suggest to stop by for, you
Speaker:know, some fellowship with them. They are very welcoming, loving
Speaker:people. They love the community, and they love their church and and the
Speaker:church family. I just wanna thank our listeners for listening to Journey
Speaker:with Care with Malvina Gabosh. Until the next time. Bye.
Speaker:Thanks for listening to the journey with care podcast where paths connect over real
Speaker:life stories and honest conversations. We hope you continue to
Speaker:join us on this journey of faith, reconciliation, and loving our
Speaker:neighbor. Be sure to like, follow, and share. Special thanks to
Speaker:host Melvina Gabosch, our podcast engineer, Johan Heinrichs,
Speaker:and donors who helped make this show possible. Journey with Care is an
Speaker:initiative of Care Impact, a Canadian charity dedicated to connecting
Speaker:and equipping the whole church across Canada to effectively journey
Speaker:in community with children and families in hard places. Learn how Care
Speaker:Impact is transforming the way churches engage with child welfare with our
Speaker:care portal technology and academy training. To support this
Speaker:podcast or to learn more about us, go to careimpact.ca or
Speaker:click the link in the show notes. We're so glad you are part of this
Speaker:journey with us as we journey with care even in the messy. Until
Speaker:next time.
