Second Thoughts | Sacred Spaces or Sacred Cows?
Partner with work of CareImpact and Journey With Care!
Description
What does it look like to let go of sacred spaces when they become sacred cows holding us back from true community?
Wendi Park and Johan Heinrichs reflect on their conversation with Erin Oxford, digging into the tension between presence and programming, buildings and relationships, and how our resources can either empower or entrench our ministry efforts. They share honest stories of surrendering physical spaces—whether a church building or a grand ministry centre—to refocus on relational impact and spiritual formation together. From the need for vulnerability in leadership to the surprising blessings found in mutuality with those we serve, this conversation challenges the church to reimagine how we steward what we have and who we are for the good of our neighbours.
Time Stamps
[00:00] "See Beyond Labels"
[04:49] "Embracing Vulnerability in Ministry"
[06:23] "Balancing Family and Ministry"
[10:49] Community Support and Sacrifice
[13:33] "Trusting Intuition Over Buildings"
[18:47] "Fasting from Busyness"
[20:13] "Dream Room: Community Visionary Space"
[23:02] CareLingo: Voluntourism
Other Links
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Email: podcast@careimpact.ca
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Transcript
And that has allowed us to put all our expenses
Speaker:into building community, into those
Speaker:relationships, into pouring into staffing that
Speaker:could make real change happen rather than making mortgage
Speaker:payments. This is Journey with
Speaker:Care, a podcast by Care Impact where curious Canadians find
Speaker:inspiration to love others well through real life stories and
Speaker:honest conversations.
Speaker:What if the most transformative thing we can offer is not a program,
Speaker:but ourselves? Hey. We're in our
Speaker:second thoughts episode just coming off an interview with,
Speaker:Wendy's friend, Erin Oxford. So Wendy, it's
Speaker:been a few days since we've chatted with her. Has there been anything from that
Speaker:conversation that has sat with you? Yeah. I always love
Speaker:having conversations with Erin. She's like an old lost
Speaker:friend that when you pick up a conversation, it feels like you've never left. I
Speaker:haven't even known her that long, but, she's a
Speaker:kindred. And I just really appreciate
Speaker:just her soft presence even with us. Like, we talk about
Speaker:presence over programs, and I feel like we had presence over
Speaker:podcasts, with her in conversation, some of the examples
Speaker:that she just gently shared. This is life,
Speaker:what it looks like in Downtown Toronto with her
Speaker:ministry, and I was just
Speaker:moved and encouraged without the
Speaker:need to do, do, do, and formula, formula.
Speaker:And, wow, that's an amazing program to simply
Speaker:be present with her. Yeah. There's a few takeaways I've
Speaker:had. I mean, I I did like what she talked about with storytelling. I
Speaker:think you brought the topic into the conversation with her where, they have these
Speaker:storytelling nights. And that just Mhmm. It made me think about even doing
Speaker:this podcast, how it's so important to have these stories. Because when
Speaker:we understand, when we know people's stories,
Speaker:that's when the most compassion comes out. It's really hard to have
Speaker:compassion for someone that you haven't seen, the path that
Speaker:they've walked. You haven't stepped into their shoes. Yeah. Because
Speaker:otherwise, we we think of people to be fixed or we see
Speaker:the presenting issue or the the thing that people
Speaker:have categorized them in for, but we may not know that
Speaker:they're an excellent cook. Or we may not know that they're
Speaker:just so brilliant. We might just see them as a label
Speaker:of homelessness or a label of poverty or label of
Speaker:child welfare, and we miss the beauty,
Speaker:the giftedness, because we haven't taken
Speaker:the opportunity to see the person. And that's
Speaker:what Erin really has challenged our listeners,
Speaker:challenged myself to be reminded of. Let's first be
Speaker:with before we think where we go from here because that is actually a
Speaker:cocreated thing as we're in relationship. We figure those things
Speaker:out. It's not like we just sit there and do nothing. But together
Speaker:in relationship, we're able to figure out what does it mean to
Speaker:be in community with each other. And it's not like this is
Speaker:something that you can only do if it comes naturally to you. Like Mhmm. I
Speaker:was reflecting on this how how far I've come in the last ten
Speaker:years. I I basically I might be the wrong person to talk about this
Speaker:because I literally wrote a book almost on the topic of
Speaker:Well, then you're the perfect person to talk about this. Ministry over people. I mean,
Speaker:that's not the premise of the book. But there was definitely this underlining
Speaker:thing where I separated, ministry to
Speaker:people and ministry to God as two separate things and definitely put
Speaker:the ministry to God as the number one. And, like, while
Speaker:there's there's truth to that, the wrong part was
Speaker:separating them to begin with. Because I believe that they're supposed to
Speaker:come together. It's the first and second commandment. They're like one another. He doesn't say
Speaker:they're separate from each other. And while my stories and experiences
Speaker:in the book are all valid, part of my life and
Speaker:and my journey, like, even since joining Care
Speaker:Impact, hearing people's stories and the path that they've
Speaker:walked and all these different perspectives, like, I really was in that echo chamber
Speaker:for a long time. It's really made me more of a
Speaker:compassionate person, and and I've been able to see more of
Speaker:God because I've been able to see the reflection of God in so many different
Speaker:people and experiences and how God has worked through many people. And, you
Speaker:know, when you've kinda pushed people to the side and you just put ministry first,
Speaker:you you really miss out on on that personal connection
Speaker:Yeah. On the humanity that God has given us all and the
Speaker:ability to see God's work in other people.
Speaker:Yeah. Johan, I really appreciate your vulnerability and your honesty,
Speaker:your honest reflection because I think if we're all honest,
Speaker:we can identify with where you're coming from and that your
Speaker:book, by the way, was brilliantly written. I I don't think it's at all like,
Speaker:oh, that's no longer true. There's there's so much truth to ministering to
Speaker:God. But I think what what I see here, what you're
Speaker:describing is something that we should all aspire to and all
Speaker:have the humility that you just shared right now and the vulnerability
Speaker:that you just shared on display for me right now in
Speaker:that as we grow in Christ, this is the
Speaker:waters we are swimming in. Doing ministry, that's that's the paradigm that
Speaker:we were born into, and so it's it's no wonder that we wanna
Speaker:minister to God separately from doing outreach ministry.
Speaker:However, as God works within us, I think that's the natural progression of
Speaker:the Holy Spirit in our life. And as he brings people into our
Speaker:life, he continuously shifts our our
Speaker:thinking, expands our thinking, not necessarily, like, changing
Speaker:theological worldviews vastly, but we get to know God in
Speaker:more depth. And what was the turning point? Can
Speaker:you define a turning point or some moments along the
Speaker:way, maybe people that God has put into your path that
Speaker:helped bring Jesus into that relationship that
Speaker:merged the gap so it wasn't just God up here and and people
Speaker:outreach over there. Who were the people in
Speaker:your path that brought that gap together, closed that gap?
Speaker:I think it was it was in my own household seeing how
Speaker:I was putting ministry first and seeing my my
Speaker:family, my own kids not being ministered to and suffering
Speaker:for it. And then being able to transition out of that place into
Speaker:a church community that, where there's something for them, where they're being ministered
Speaker:to by others, being poured into by others, and not and not just
Speaker:relying on me to do it, but actually having friends and and peers
Speaker:that love Jesus and pour into each other. And and
Speaker:just seeing the change in them and and the amount of fruit that I'm seeing
Speaker:in their lives just from being in community with others,
Speaker:it's just been transformative for me to see. In between that
Speaker:time, we we kinda started a little small group,
Speaker:kind of a small house church and just valuing the
Speaker:friendships that I have around me and the people that have walked alongside
Speaker:for so many years and realizing, you know what? The only reason I was able
Speaker:to sustain that is because of those friendships and people that would uphold
Speaker:me and lift me. But putting ministry first, sometimes
Speaker:I grieved not investing as much as I could have in
Speaker:them over the years. And and now I'm just thankful that I can
Speaker:do that a little bit more. And even thinking about John
Speaker:16, how Jesus said it's better that I go.
Speaker:There's lots of layers to that. But one of them I think is if
Speaker:Jesus was still on earth, he would've just had a
Speaker:crowd following him everywhere. Mhmm. And he was one
Speaker:person when he was on earth. But because he left, he was able to send
Speaker:the Holy Spirit, the indwelling Holy Spirit to indwell
Speaker:in in his people, so he's actually present with them
Speaker:in community wherever they are. And I think that's his heart, not to have
Speaker:people just following his physical presence everywhere, but to actually have him
Speaker:indwelling and in community, ministering to one another with the holy
Speaker:spirit ministering to us and just seeing the fruit of that. Well and
Speaker:that's a powerful statement, actually. It's a theological positioning,
Speaker:actually, where we aren't just looking to God up in the the
Speaker:clouds and having a holy moment. We're pursuing God
Speaker:in community, that there is so interconnected.
Speaker:And I think that's one of the things that I if I reflect in my
Speaker:life and in in our society, there's a lot on spiritual
Speaker:formation. We can go to bible college. We can go to seminary. We can go
Speaker:to church. And it's a lot about me, myself, and God,
Speaker:but there's not a lot relationally, laterally,
Speaker:across into community. How do we find God? How do we experience God? How do
Speaker:we pursue God? So it's not just a social club. We're not just talking,
Speaker:oh, you you enjoyed hanging out, and therefore, that's a
Speaker:godly thing. Debatably, yes and no. But how
Speaker:do we pursue God in relationship? How do we
Speaker:make him a part of our relationships? And and that's something
Speaker:that our team at Care Impact we've been sitting with, and how do we help
Speaker:close that divide? So we have these church experiences, but then as
Speaker:we're inviting them into, vulnerable situations or or real
Speaker:needed situations in the community with families and children and youth
Speaker:aging out that really need some supports around them,
Speaker:they're inviting community, how do we close the gap? And so we've
Speaker:we've kinda coined the term relational spiritual formation
Speaker:on finding God pursuing God, not just as an
Speaker:outreach project to bring Jesus to people, because they might even have Jesus.
Speaker:They're just falling on hard times. But how do we
Speaker:intentionally pursue Jesus, walk with Jesus
Speaker:into community? And sometimes, oftentimes,
Speaker:it's the very people who are giving that cup of water, visiting that person in
Speaker:prison. That's where we find Jesus. It's Matthew 25 all over
Speaker:again. And I think we have a lot to to grow. And
Speaker:coming back to what Erin was talking about, one of the stories
Speaker:that really, impacted me, and I know, you mentioned
Speaker:it earlier as well, when her community, the Dale
Speaker:community, they did an offering because Erin was in
Speaker:need, with her husband medically ill. And
Speaker:they came together and raised a total of
Speaker:$78 panhandling in whatever ways they
Speaker:could. They wanted to bless Erin, And that stood out to
Speaker:me, how they were wanting to give back and
Speaker:and work with her in relationship. That that spoke of mutuality
Speaker:in my mind. And this was in a community that had a lot of means.
Speaker:Right? Like, they put everything together to just they wanted
Speaker:to support Erin. Even though she had the money raised
Speaker:for the for the surgery, like, this was just this almost
Speaker:felt like a bigger a bigger gift to her because she knew they didn't have
Speaker:it. But, Wendy, you kinda, I mean, Eren talked
Speaker:about how they had to give up a building because they didn't,
Speaker:first of all, bit Oh, yeah. They weren't able to afford it. So it just
Speaker:kinda forced them to grow smaller, which is kinda cool, and it
Speaker:really developed who they are today. You kinda went through a similar
Speaker:situation with Carry Impact part of our roots too, where you gave up a building
Speaker:once. Right? Like so is there a little bit of a is there a
Speaker:little bit of a parallel there as well? Well, I think there is a big
Speaker:takeaway. And and nowhere in our discussion with Erin did she
Speaker:say buildings are bad, get rid of them, and and go sit in sackcloth,
Speaker:because buildings are good. They still use buildings. However, they've
Speaker:they've restructured how they their relationship to
Speaker:buildings because they're you're right. Their budgets. And
Speaker:she said we couldn't afford it. But I would argue a lot of
Speaker:churches, if their priorities were the people, they can't afford it either.
Speaker:Right? A lot of ministries, a lot of churches can't afford buildings. They're
Speaker:costly. However, a lot of churches still pour all
Speaker:their funding, into their their buildings at
Speaker:the expense of reaching people. But we
Speaker:too, we were offered a building. We were in a building renting it very
Speaker:affordably because it was sitting empty. And so we had a really good
Speaker:relationship, and I really appreciate working with them. They were a
Speaker:dwindling congregation willing to to sell it to us at an affordable rate.
Speaker:And I've done building projects in the past for community
Speaker:development projects, and, I thought, wow. This is a really
Speaker:good piece of land, a really good building. We could have a ministry
Speaker:center. So my vision just kicked in overdrive. I had a
Speaker:proposal ready to go. I thought, you know what? This is actually stood a chance
Speaker:to get it all funded. But somewhere along the line, we had
Speaker:already a letter of offer, received as far as
Speaker:sort of our intent to purchase, and they had accepted it.
Speaker:But God really put it on my mind, on my heart to say,
Speaker:Wendy, I don't want you managing
Speaker:buildings. I didn't call you into building management. Yes. You could have many
Speaker:ministries operating out of one building. Yes. It would be a
Speaker:sustainable way. Yes. That's cool, but it's not your mantle to carry.
Speaker:And, being an opportunist, I thought, but are you
Speaker:sure, god? And he always is. Are you sure, god? Because this is
Speaker:an amazing building. We could do a ton of good for many
Speaker:ministries, for many people, but he he shifted us
Speaker:away. And I am so grateful. Like, God can be trusted
Speaker:in those niggles and those nudges even when it's counterintuitive, even when
Speaker:everything stacks up in my favor. And I gave that up, and
Speaker:a few months later, the pandemic happened. So I was super glad that I wasn't
Speaker:sitting with a big empty building. And we had already shifted
Speaker:into remote working, and that has allowed us to put all
Speaker:our expenses into building community,
Speaker:into those relationships, into pouring into staffing that
Speaker:could make real change happen rather than making
Speaker:mortgage payments. And so, yeah, I've been on both sides.
Speaker:I've done a $6,600,000 project
Speaker:in a in a development project that is still running today, and thank goodness
Speaker:there's still green space and buildings and programs running because of it. But
Speaker:I've also exited a building, And I'm working out of my Shasta
Speaker:in my backyard, and I say glory be, because God can
Speaker:use both of it. But both of those, God was directing
Speaker:me for the community. What is his intent?
Speaker:And I think we're not looking for a formula, copy and
Speaker:paste ministries. He's looking for how can we be
Speaker:most intentionally with the people that he's called us to.
Speaker:And I think what we are building, we're building with the
Speaker:intent of people getting together in community and seeing transformation
Speaker:that way. Like, even Yeah. With our neighbor up that we're building, it's a
Speaker:it's a small group experience learning how to love our neighbors
Speaker:better, but it's meant to be done in community with others. This
Speaker:podcast, the stories again, we want people to hear the stories
Speaker:and be able to relate to their neighbors, relate to others in a better way.
Speaker:I mean, at the same time, I'm in a church that has a bunch of
Speaker:buildings. They're doing a lot of really good things and there's, and I don't really
Speaker:have an issue with it. Like, they buy old buildings and refurbish them rather than
Speaker:building new because they want it to pour into the community. So they're doing some
Speaker:really good things. So I think there are ways for us to be able to
Speaker:use buildings better. Well and it's easier said than done because
Speaker:I I know there's plenty of good examples. And if you are one of those
Speaker:ministries or one of those churches that are doing things differently
Speaker:with your building, let us know. Join our our
Speaker:podcast group and and interact with us because you guys are
Speaker:leading the way. There's a lot of churches that have multi
Speaker:churches running out of one building. I think that's awesome across the
Speaker:denominations. I see some churches that have multi
Speaker:programs, nonprofits, and churches, and schools
Speaker:operating even right here in our own city. I have good examples of that.
Speaker:And I think there's so many good uses for our buildings.
Speaker:You're right. We're not against buildings, but I feel that there needs
Speaker:to be a huge release of control. And sometimes
Speaker:buildings can be our sacred cow. Sometimes buildings
Speaker:can be something that, no. This is our ministry. Now this is how
Speaker:we do it. We wanna do programs our way when really what
Speaker:we're creating is multi silos across the city. We wouldn't
Speaker:necessarily see it that way because we're so well invested in our our
Speaker:bubble that we are like, this is it. We're the mecca.
Speaker:But I love the examples when we can open up our
Speaker:buildings to faith based organizations,
Speaker:government programs, others that we can really utilize
Speaker:the bricks and mortar for something so much
Speaker:greater than just simply doing church
Speaker:in community under our own programs and really having control
Speaker:over all those things. And I think we have to reconsider
Speaker:how we are stewarding our buildings, or are we just wanting to have a
Speaker:control in having our little ministry niche in the the
Speaker:community? So it is kinda odd having these essentially, the
Speaker:largest meeting spaces in any city. It's only to be used once or twice a
Speaker:week. It's really strange, actually. It is.
Speaker:So what about that where when we choose productivity
Speaker:and programs and and meetings over
Speaker:presence and being present with people? Yeah. I guess the other thing is
Speaker:we can say, oh, you know what? We have this building. It's seven days. So
Speaker:let's just ramp up the programs. Let's hire people. Let's
Speaker:get the tithes rolling. And it is a bit of a marketing thing within the
Speaker:church. So if we get enough people and we get enough programs, we can
Speaker:make sure we use it twenty four seven, and we can be a hub.
Speaker:Not bad in itself, but then you have to ask yourself,
Speaker:are we just building a community center for
Speaker:ourselves? Is our club just getting busier for our
Speaker:people, or is it actually doing some greater good? Is
Speaker:it being actively present? Is it meeting needs that our community is
Speaker:actually wanting? Is it responding to to those things?
Speaker:Or are we just being busy with our buildings? Yeah. I don't know. I
Speaker:don't know if I have an answer to that. And And I think that's something
Speaker:that we're gonna continue wrestling with. Like, what are we using our
Speaker:buildings for? Are we really serving the community and the
Speaker:people that the Lord has has given us in our
Speaker:sphere of influence in our area of the city? And I believe we're
Speaker:gonna have to account for that one day when we stand before him. I've given
Speaker:you these things. How did you use them? Yeah. And I wonder
Speaker:I wonder if it it also starts, Johan, with fasting from
Speaker:being busy, getting off the treadmill of program, program, program.
Speaker:And it's not an invitation to apathy, but an invitation to stop and be
Speaker:present. Because how can we actually know what is needed in the community? How can
Speaker:we actually discern how our buildings should be used if we don't get off
Speaker:the bandwagon and stop printing bulletins of all the programs? You
Speaker:know? And so and stop filling our websites full of of of
Speaker:programs or an empty building that we're not doing anything.
Speaker:Could we stop and listen and be present with
Speaker:people to discern what we should be
Speaker:putting our hand to, where we should be investing our time
Speaker:with. If we follow Jesus, which we should be, he
Speaker:started with people at the well, with the with the
Speaker:leper, with the people. He he hung out with the people
Speaker:and just responded. It sounds so simple,
Speaker:but I dare the church to do that. And Erin talked about this too
Speaker:where she went to her community to ask, hey. What do you wanna
Speaker:see with this ministry? Like, what what do you think is possible? She talked
Speaker:about how she had to do that dance of what is possible and
Speaker:what they wanna see. And and that might be a good question for us
Speaker:to ask. What you know what? We have these resources. We have this building. We
Speaker:have this community. These people that are willing to pour into their
Speaker:surroundings, their neighborhoods. Yeah. What is possible? Well, I can
Speaker:tell you from experience when I was, working in an old dilapidated
Speaker:building in in a core area of Winnipeg.
Speaker:And we were literally having, like, our
Speaker:roof cave in and mold, and it was it it
Speaker:needed to it was condemned. And we needed to but that place
Speaker:was so needed, a a needed area to be present in.
Speaker:I remember filling one of the rooms we dedicated to a dream
Speaker:room, and we put lined the walls all with paper, rolls of
Speaker:white paper. We put a bunch of markers. And what the message that we said
Speaker:to all the people in our programs and in in the community, we said,
Speaker:welcome to the dream room. Come in anytime that the the building is open.
Speaker:We want you to graffiti these walls full of ideas of
Speaker:what you need, what you envision, not just what you need, but
Speaker:what you envision a flourishing community should look like. And so
Speaker:we had from little kids doing
Speaker:coloring on the walls and pictures of a playground to
Speaker:grandma's cougombs that were expressing their heart's
Speaker:desire of what they saw flourishing communities looking like or the
Speaker:the memories that they wanted to bring back that would bring health to our community
Speaker:and vitality to the community. We put that all together. Boy,
Speaker:was that a happening, buzzing place. It was so fun. And I
Speaker:realized, man, right around us, we could have come up with,
Speaker:like, oh, we're gonna do this, that, and the other thing. And they're they're all
Speaker:the traditional what you should do to solve, fix a community. But here
Speaker:were some innovative, amazing ideas.
Speaker:And what that did in the development process for
Speaker:the the rebuild of the new building, one, they were part of me coming
Speaker:to funders and saying, this isn't just my wish list. This is what our
Speaker:community has spoken, and this is why they want these
Speaker:things. But you know what the best thing, Johan, that was
Speaker:vivid in my mind was when we had the grand
Speaker:opening day, and we invited community to walk
Speaker:through and tour their building. And I could overhear
Speaker:these people say, oh, this is what I put in
Speaker:for. Oh, yeah. We we talked about this. This is exactly what we
Speaker:designed. And just to see that ownership, this is our building,
Speaker:and us to just say welcome home, There's nothing like it. But
Speaker:I think if we if we bring that down to a church level, we have
Speaker:a little ways to go to make a dream room for the community to
Speaker:speak rather than us providing solutions for what we
Speaker:would love the community to have. Are the buildings and
Speaker:the programs, are they serving the community or is the
Speaker:community serving the buildings and programs? I think that's kinda what it comes down
Speaker:to. Something we all need to wrestle with. I think we should probably
Speaker:end the conversation there, and let's get into our CareLingo
Speaker:segment. CareLingo. Alright. This is
Speaker:kind of a related word to our topic, when we're
Speaker:talking about programs and
Speaker:programs over people, that sort of thing. Our term today is
Speaker:voluntourism. Mhmm. It's kind of a plan word. I'm not I'm not
Speaker:even sure if it's a real word, but it's it's I've heard it a lot.
Speaker:Yeah. But, you know, there's there's sometimes made up
Speaker:sometimes made up words that you hear lots.
Speaker:Honestly, I didn't know what it was when I first heard it, which is, I
Speaker:don't know, probably several years ago. But I'll let you give the right definition. But
Speaker:what I would have thought is, you know, booking your next vacation,
Speaker:with someone with matching t shirts that has a caption on how you're
Speaker:helping others. You know? Oh, that's so annoying. It's like,
Speaker:look at us. Look what we did. We're going on tour. We're
Speaker:going on vacation. But we want people to know,
Speaker:while we're sitting on the beach, that we're really good people, that we help others
Speaker:when we're back at home. So volunteerism. Yeah.
Speaker:Well, maybe, we should make your dream come true. You and Corey go on a
Speaker:vacation. We could make you a t shirt for Care Impact volunteerism.
Speaker:I'd I'd be up for that, volunteer. Yeah. I'd wear this
Speaker:shirt. Yeah. Okay. Even if I don't agree with it right now, if it gets
Speaker:me on a vacation, I'll take it. You're not volunteering, but if people don't give
Speaker:you more support, it's basically as volunteers. I might look like
Speaker:I'm living a lavish lifestyle, but really, I I help people. I'm
Speaker:a good person back at home. I live I
Speaker:live frugally, volunteerism. What does it actually mean, though,
Speaker:Wendy? Well well, it's it it may be part of a a
Speaker:larger discussion than we have time for here today, but it there is some
Speaker:critique around the tourism when it it's spoken of sort
Speaker:of on a negative tone, when we critique short term service
Speaker:trips that prioritize kind of those feel good experiences,
Speaker:exposure to other countries, and a bit like, let's be
Speaker:honest, a bit exploitative, get those pictures with those cute grubby
Speaker:kids and the white girl in the middle. I'm just talking myself
Speaker:here. And getting those exposure trips probably in
Speaker:a warm country maybe in the December, just saying,
Speaker:or or January. But we we prioritize that
Speaker:volunteer. Maybe we're painting an orphanage or or something that they
Speaker:could have hired somebody to do for themselves and had a job
Speaker:given locally or, maybe something a little more
Speaker:constructive that they actually wanted than what we bring in our suitcase,
Speaker:over that long term well-being of communities. And so,
Speaker:yeah. So it's it's useful for volunteerism is a
Speaker:term that might be useful for conversations about, how
Speaker:we go about missions, how we go about outreach, even in our own community.
Speaker:You don't have to go across the world. You might be going across the
Speaker:tracks. And how are we exposing? How are we
Speaker:being present in community? That conversation
Speaker:about, like, power, who holds the power in that, and who
Speaker:are we listening to, and how are we being present,
Speaker:and is that relationally sustainable in what
Speaker:we're doing, or is there, if we're honest, a bit of exploitation?
Speaker:But there is good ways. Let me let me end with this. There are
Speaker:good ways to engage cross culturally, whether it's across the
Speaker:world or across the tracks. There are ways to actually
Speaker:meaningfully be present and learn with and do in an
Speaker:equitable way. So don't be afraid of of
Speaker:crossing cultures and learning and being a blessing to
Speaker:others, but just be aware of volunteerism.
Speaker:Yeah. Because you wanna build relationship, not not
Speaker:just, you know, one and done. It's a posture. And
Speaker:there's there's the idea of helping and not hurting as well when you
Speaker:go into a new culture. Right? But until next time Until next
Speaker:time. Remember to stay curious. Thank you for
Speaker:joining us on Journey with Care. To get more information on weekly
Speaker:episodes, upcoming opportunities, or to connect with our
Speaker:community, visit journeywithcare.ca or find Care Impact
Speaker:on Facebook and Instagram, or just check the show notes for these
Speaker:links and all the links related to this episode. Share your thoughts,
Speaker:leave us a message, and be part of a network of individuals journeying in
Speaker:faith and purpose. Together, let's discover how we can make a
Speaker:meaningful impact.
