Differently Wired | Schizophrenia in Community With Chris Summerville

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What does loving your neighbor actually look like? This is

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journey with care, where curious Canadians get inspired to love

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others well through real life stories and honest conversations.

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Welcome to another episode of Journey with Care. We're coming to the end of our

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series, differently wired in community, and today we have a

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special guest. He's going to be talking about schizophrenia. But before we

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get into that, let me remind you that we have our journey with prayer

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podcast, which is on a different feed. You can find it right now on our

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website, or you can find it on your favorite podcast player and listen to that.

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Take these conversations from the head to the heart into your daily walk

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and routine. Also, I wanted to acknowledge that we had a listener

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message. This was on our differently wired bipolar

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in community with Jaiden episode. Our listener goes to say, this was

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so educational. Would it be possible to get an episode on

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borderline personality disorder? I recently got diagnosed

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and I am trying to understand it. First of all, I want to say thank

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you so much for reaching out and we hear you. And getting

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a diagnosis for BPD can be a lot to take in.

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It's fantastic that you're looking to learn more about it and get information.

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While we've already planned out the remaining episodes in the series, in fact, this is

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our last one in this specific series. We'll definitely

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keep BPD in mind for future projects. We hope this series has

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encouraged the church and community around you to be support, no matter

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how how differently wired you are. I personally actually

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have experience supporting someone with BPD and the

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best thing you could do, my quick advice is just to keep a large circle

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of supports around you. And hopefully we've helped equip the church

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to learn to do that a little bit better. So make sure you gather people

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around you and have that large support system. And thanks

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again for sending a message. And if anybody else has comments,

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if you have questions, suggestions, we love to hear from

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you. Just head over to our website, journeywithcare. Ca

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podcast. You can click on the episode posts or send us a

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message or voicemail. You can do it all from there. And we would love to

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hear from you and respond to whatever you have to say.

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All right, there we go, Wendy. So we're back in this final differently

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wired episode. You want to give our listeners a little bit of a

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catch up to where we are and then introduce our guest today?

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Yeah, no, I'd love to. Man, I wish we could keep going.

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And to the person that wrote in about BPD,

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hey, we hear you. We journey with people who have this

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diagnosis, so know that we will be praying for you,

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actually, and do circle yourself around

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with people and receive that support, because you are not

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alone. And hopefully in future episodes we can continue

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to support you. But this series, oh my goodness, we are coming

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to an end. We've been going through a lot of topics, so I encourage

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all our listeners to listen through the series. There have been so

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many rich conversations. We've been talking about autism and bipolar

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ADHD. We've had certified neuroscience coaches

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and a lot of people with lived experience differently

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wired in community. And so I just want to thank each of our guests for

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coming. And I'm so excited to introduce our current guests, who I

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have met a year and a half ago at a retreat center. And

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I'm excited to introduce Chris Somerville to our podcast

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as we talk about schizophrenia. Chris, welcome to the

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podcast. Well, thank you. And what a wonderful

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opportunity for me to be able to share to your

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listeners one of the most confusing,

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taboo mental illnesses in the

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darkness. Yes. I am so glad that we can

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have this conversation together. But Chris, as an

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introduction man, you have studied a lot.

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You have a doctorate in theology, you're a certified psychosocial

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rehabilitation recovery practitioner, and you also

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come to us as CEO of the Schizophrenia Society of Canada. So

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you know a lot about this topic. Can you tell us a little bit

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more about schizophrenia? Let's demystify that. First and

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foremost, when we talk about schizophrenia, what are we even

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talking about? Let's start with that. Well, I

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wished I could have asked that question when I was around 14

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years old, living in Birmingham, Alabama, hence the accent.

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My brother Terry developed cannabis induced schizophrenia in

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Vietnam, and when he came home around

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1970, there was no one to turn

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to to ask the kind of questions that I get asked today,

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and I'm most pleased to answer. And this session

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today, you know, I really want it for those individuals

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who live with personal experience, a lived experience of schizophrenia and

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their caregivers and their family members and hope really can answer a lot of

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questions that I wish I had had answers to

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back end of days in the old south. So anyway, when

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we talk about schizophrenia, we're actually

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talking about one of the psychotic illnesses.

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The main feature of schizophrenia is

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psychosis. Psychosis is when you cannot

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determine what is real and is not real, your

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brain is not functioning in the way and responding

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to the cues of what reality is. And

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so the two features psychoses

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is hallucinations. Hallucinations is any of your

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five senses when they're not responding as they should,

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so you maybe hear voices that sound like real voices

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as if they're coming inside your head or outside of the head. You may feel

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tactile sensations on your skin, odors

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through your nose, seeing things that aren't there. The most

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common hallucination is hearing voices

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that are there, because those voices can be tormenting

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and paranoid type of voices.

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The second symptom of

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psychopsis is delusions, and that's fixed thoughts that have

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no basis in reality. Like the RCMP has both

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my house or I'm Kennedy Prime

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Minister Trudeau and I talked with him frequently, and he

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talks to me, so that can be very disturbing.

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And again, sometimes those delusions can be very

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paranoid as well. So when we

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go from psychosis, how do we get from psychosis to

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schizophrenia? A doctor has to rule out about 16

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illnesses that also have psychosis as their feature.

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For example, Parkinson's disease, brain tumor, thyroid

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problems, heart medication, accidents to your

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brain canal galaxy. Those are

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some. And so the final bipolar disorder with

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psychosis or postpartum psychosis are some forms of

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depression. So when all that is ruled out, then we're left

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with schizoaffective disorder or schizophrenia.

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Schizoaffective is a combination of strong depression and

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psychosis. Schizophrenia is primary

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psychosis. Oh, that's very helpful. Thank you, Chris,

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for explaining that, because I think that word

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schizophrenia can be often flippantly used. Oh, that's so

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schizophrenic of me. Or just any

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delusions be considered schizophrenia. And let's face

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it, I'm not a medical doctor. I'm not a psychiatrist. There's

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so many other factors that people are looking at. So it's

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helpful for you to explain how that is being diagnosed

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and what that looks like historically. How has the

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church viewed schizophrenia? And has it often

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been misdiagnosed, so to speak, as something

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demonic or other than what

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the psychology would say it is? And is there some

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correlation there? How have you navigated this within

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your church experience and people's understanding within the church?

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Well, hold on to that question. There's one transitional

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piece I need to say, and that is you mentioned about schizophrenia

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and some issues. I never say

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schizophrenic, I don't say cancerous

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patient. And you're not wrong by saying that. But

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then you mentioned earlier, we introduced the

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program talking about multiple

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personalities, which are technically known as

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dissociation disorder. And many people think

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that schizophrenia is a split personality or

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dissociation disorder. It is not. Those are totally

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different. The word schizophrenia is from

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sugar words, which means split mind, and

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hence, people think split personality. In the

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rim area of the Pacific Ocean, countries like

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Japan and others have done away with their

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equivalent word of schizophrenia, which is also

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translated in their language as split personality.

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So it's a disintegration personality

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disorder because it involves all aspects

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of your personality. So words are

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very important and they're very powerful. And in terms I speak

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people, a person living with schizophrenia, a family

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member who has a son living with schizophrenia, I have

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personal, have experience with schizophrenia. Someone

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might say, the church is not faired

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any better than society, that

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we are human beings. In the church, we're fallible.

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We're all under what the scripture calls the fall. We

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all have illnesses, we all get sick, we all have mental health problems at

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some time. And then there are those who have mental illnesses.

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But because of medievalism

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and back, you know, even before evil times in

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the middle ages, there was the notion they're

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prevalent. And you read it in the Bible. I mean, Jesus was even

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as in the scripture. I wish I remember this specific

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scripture. His brothers and sisters thought he was

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crazy as a living, so to speak. That's language we sometimes

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use today. It's because of

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talked with God, God talked with him and so forth. And

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I think Mary had a full understanding who Jesus was. His brothers

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and sisters probably did not have a full understanding in terms of

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maturation. And then the apostle Paul before

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the kingdom, and he said, you nearly made me mad with all of your

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cough. So there is reference then in each

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of those, but a lot of it is saying

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through the eyes of the demonic. So that's carried

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through. And so a lot of evangelical christians,

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conservative christians, still hold on to

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that. Mental illnesses are covenants

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of possession of Satan. Now, we have to be

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very careful with that. You need your theologians and your Bible

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scholars and pastors, and some of them do, a very lot of them do

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a very good job. I still believe, because I believe the Bible,

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and I take the Bible as normal reading

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normally, what it's saying. And so Jesus did cast out

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demons, and those demons can manifest themselves with

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illnesses. But I'm not a demonologist, so I,

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I can't say, well, okay, this stems from demonicness,

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stems from the biochemistry, but that's not what we're

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talking about. We're not talking about demonism today.

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Most mental illnesses are a manifestation

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of a person with a brain goal.

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Wrong. For some reason, the brain has

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more nerve cells than there

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are trees on the planet of this earth.

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Each nerve cell has a synapses. It has a gap between

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each nerve cell, and there are more synapses

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and are leaves on the trees and the whole world.

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And then for the communication to happen, for you to hear me talking

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today, for you to feel what you're feeling, to hear what you're

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hearing, there has to be neurotransmitters that

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creator created for the brain to operate

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operationally. And then there's a whole slew of them,

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many, many hundreds. And so if there's too

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much or too little, it can have an effect on

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that part of the brain. So sense of

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radiation is a mental illness that creates a lot of disorder in your

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life. That's why the social psychiatrist in the

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biopsychiatrist called the DSM five

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statistical manual, and it'll list a lot of symptoms

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of all the middle illness. And so

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they have to look at the cluster of symptoms and then determine what

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is the origin of that. But they don't use the word middle

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illness in that text. They use the phrase

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rather mental disorder. So the difference between a mental health problem

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or mental health challenges is that you're having a bad day of

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your emotions before sex, may be struggling.

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You might have some sort of an identity crisis. Who am I? And what's my

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life all about? You may have generalized anxiety

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and generalize depression.

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That's mental health. So we need resiliency. And a lot of people

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experienced mental health problems during this pandemic.

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A mental illness or a mental disorder in

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Swan and is so pervasive, it creates a

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disorder in your life. It interferes with your learning,

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your loving, and it can create

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chaos in your life. It can bring tension between

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relationships, because people having very little knowledge

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about these symptoms and what they can do to

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assist this leaves them in consternation and

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creates conflict and disorder and all. Sometimes the law has

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to be involved because the person needs some

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help to take them to the emergency room. If they won't go on their

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own or they come under the Mental Health act,

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police are the ones who escort them to a

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hospital. Well, Chris, there is a wealth of information there

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you've just shared. I just really appreciate the way you were able to explain such

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complex things and bring it down to in language that I can

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understand. So, thank you. And I can imagine a person

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living with schizophrenia would find

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some frustration in a neurotypical world

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where they're experiencing disorder in a

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society that's expecting different results or

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different behavior. And I think sometimes we can look at the behavior

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and not necessarily understand at a neurological

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level. So I appreciate you explaining that. So when you

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say disorder, it's literally

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misfirings of the brain with the neurons and the synapses.

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Is that what we're talking about? Right. Things are not working as they should,

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just like a car engine. If it gets too much gas, it floods out.

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If it doesn't have enough gas, it stops running or putters around.

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The question I get a lot, and the thing is about, well, why don't people

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excel? The house? Schizophrenia. I've seen a picture of

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your family one day. If any of your children

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began to experience any of these symptoms, they would be

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horrified. They would be scared to death. I'm talking

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about as it progresses, because they don't want to be thought of

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a nutcase, they don't want to be thought as crazy,

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they don't want to be thought as a nut bar. They don't want to be

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thought of. Eventually, the greyhound bus killer that killed

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Tim McLean on the bus, you had schizophrenia, and I worked here with him for

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ten years. No one wants to wake

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up. I'm homeless psychiatrist, and

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I don't understand all this language, and they're

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giving me this medicine that creates a lot of side effects without

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drowsiness. I feel zombied out. And

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so there's a real hesitancy for we as human

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beings. Oh, I'm struggling with depression,

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oh, that anxiety, because they reach social media and what have you,

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and people who are threatening suicide and an individual who

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wanted dying and whatever. And so it had to be a really

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unusual family in which a child in the family

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felt comfortable enough to say, you know, mom, dad, I'm

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hearing these voices. Yeah, I have a question about that,

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Chris. How would I, and I appreciate the way you

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frame that. How would I, as a

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parenthood, or I as a church member,

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be a safe person to walk with somebody

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that's experiencing some of these symptoms? And

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how have you helped people

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destigmatize that so that they can get the support and the level of the

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support that they're needing, because there is hope. Sometimes it's the

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awareness of the diagnosis itself that actually could be a relief

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in finding a pathway forward, or

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some rehabilitation, some normalcy of being able to live with it.

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Can you help me understand how can I be that safe person or

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become a safe congregation for this diagnosis?

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Yes, these things begin very slowly,

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unless you're using something like cannabis and help you get bad

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truck, which was oftentimes psychosis, but it comes on

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slowly in the very first phase, not that you have to remember the word is

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the prodroval phase. And that's when you sort

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of looking back, it's when you look back, then you say, oh, well, that's what

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that was. And that happens to a lot of parents when they get education.

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They say, oh, that's how it did began with Lori. And now

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I see. So, for example, their sleep pattern

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changes, their attention span

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changes. They stay in their room more,

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that gradually become more reclusive to be

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around large crowds, creates anxiety.

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Fluorescent lights can bother them a great deal. He's probably want

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to change these lights, and then they may

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elevate them to a time. So there's that sensitivity

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developing to external stimuli, and then they'll come

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to the bigger the point of, I hear voices,

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you know, there's voices talking to the moment. Now, depending

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on what the person was doing 24 hours earlier, you know, the mother said,

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well, maybe ask for much alcohol to drink or, oh, it'll

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go away, and I'll. Well, the good question would be, well,

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what are they saying? And there are many people around who are only

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your voices, so try to normalize it as much, you know, especially what are

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the voices saying? Some of the questions are these, how

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many voices do you recognize in the voices?

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So sometimes the voices mimic. Someone may acknowledge,

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especially if they've been abused. People who have experienced

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abuse and trauma, sexual abuse and PTSD,

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will have manifestation on psychosis, so that

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trauma has to be dealt with. There are no medications for

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trauma, so that's where the psychotherapies come in. And then if

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they have those delusions,

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I know my iPhone is bugged, and. And

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they start getting rid of something. So you just need to inquire

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what's motivating that, what is the fear, and try to remain

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as complex and don't create a diagnosis, don't give a

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diagnosis to them. And what you need to do

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is you go to your family doctor, because

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they're the ones who are to arrange you to get a

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psychiatrist. And unfortunately, you have to wait months.

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Now, if it got worse, the person is saying, I know they're

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trying to kill me, and I'm going to have to do something about

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them. So if they talk words

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of homicide or suicide, you need to take

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them to the emergency room as soon as

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possible. Not that they're going to do it immediately, but it's beginning

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to bring disorder into their life and they actually believe

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it. That's the thing about psychosis, is

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that you have these thoughts and thinking that are

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not true in reality. Then a doctor would do the

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evaluation and put them on a beginning

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medication to hope that they bring down

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those symptoms. But I would try not to use

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language that's offensive to them. You

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might be right. But you don't want to scare them away from getting

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help and encourage them. That hope is

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thoughtful. So it takes about once a person develops the

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prodromal systems and they totally crash

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the water. Wherever the diagnosis is going to go, that's about

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three to four years. And the truth

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of the matter, that there's people there is

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cold. So that's the heart of the schizophrenia

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recovery movement. When people ask me, Chris, what do you do? I work in the

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schizophrenia recovery movement because I want that recovery tied to

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schizophrenia. Well, tell me more. Even though it is hard as

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hell as an illness, you'll be scared to death. Most people don't understand

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it. And you do lose a lot of your friends, you do

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lose a lot of family member relationships, like, I don't want you to

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bring your son. Let's get stranger about birthday parties.

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They're scared. You tend not to date much or not at

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all. Most people who continue to live only schizophrenia

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don't marry, although that is changing today with the better medications,

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they generally don't finish education. But you know what?

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If you finish high school and have some education before

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you develop schizophrenia, you do better. You do better.

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And so there are. We can talk about that later. There are various

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means of what promotes self recovery. All I can

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say for an absolute fact that people with

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schizophrenia are some of the most lonely people in the world. They're very

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isolated. The church can come in to fill that gap. So

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using something like the sanctuary material that's

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produced in Canada, that you've had them on your program to

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befriend them, understand symptoms, who are

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indifferent, the ways that you adjust your communication,

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maybe you talk too fast and you slow down so they can swap information.

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And don't just talk about the schizophrenia, talk about their

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hopes and their dreams and what they would like

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life to be for them to inspire hope

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and then plan some get togethers. Now, that's

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rather intensive relationship already there, but there are people who are

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especially gifted in the church. We feel that you can do it

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back. There's recovery of celebration, celebrate

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recovery. That's what. Celebrate recovery. Well, maybe you could choose some

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time to line that. And it's known by the church

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folks that it's for people who have mental health and

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mental illnesses and you praying for each other

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and you share material and you share life experiences.

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A big movement in North America and around the world is peer support

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movement. Now, peer support's been way around. When my wife had breast

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cancer, she had a peer support worker. And

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here, where I get my prosthetic hook repaired, I was

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lost, man. Alligator. I'm in Louisiana, and I wasn't able to

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save the hand. Well, that's not a true

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story to begin with. If you believe you probably are suffering

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from collisions, it's not a truth. It makes for a good story,

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though. You do have a prosthetic hand. So were you born

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that way? No, I was born that way. So I'm the prosthetic.

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It's part of my recovery, learning how to use it. I've mastered it.

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And I used to go in as a peer support worker when I was

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a teenager and teach people who were recent amputees or who had born

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with the absence of a right hand, helping them to see how functional the

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prosthetic hook in the hand could be. So peer support worker

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is the one who spend where you are. They are on the road of

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recovery. And the goal is that the person

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who's the patient now will be motivating to say,

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well, how are you able to do that? How are you doing what you're doing

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now? The issues around medication and so forth.

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So the church could even offer that, especially in a christian

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context. I think it needs to be more than once a year, but just

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periodically, someone can give a testimony about

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phosphorous through their bicolor, through their schizophrenia.

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You have to be careful with the media. Working with the media. It's not trying

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to sensationalize the story. Oh, tell us all about those

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hallucinations and those goodies. I want to hear they can make reference

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to it, but it's really talking about the disorder in their

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life and then how they.

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So there are community mental health workers, there's psychiatrists,

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general physicians, psychologists, saw

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therapy, unresolved trauma issues, and

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then be in a friend. Just be in a friend, you know, takes up

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to lunch some time. You don't have to spend all your time with the

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individual. Also a limited income, very

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limited income. But I know a University of

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Toronto engineer professor who has

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schizophrenia. And so people with schizophrenia are

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amongst us and in. They're not all crazy

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acting. It's stabilized. The symptoms

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are stabilized. They found ways for the brain to

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worse for them. And I think it's more common than people often

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realize. We might have a certain Persona that we think

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of, maybe through media or Hollywood,

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of what we think of when we talk about schizophrenia. But

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you've shared a lot here, and I really appreciate the way you have given

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us so many not understanding, but also helpful tools

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on how to walk alongside for those who do not experience

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schizophrenic episodes or symptoms,

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but how to walk alongside and be a place of safety,

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but also those experiencing mental illnesses and those living

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with schizophrenia. How they can find support

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such wealth of information. And I think one of the things that I see in

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common is that we need to become aware, we need to

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destigmatize. There's ways to do that. I know from my personal

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experience. I've on several occasions, I have helped community

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members and in crisis and

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taken them to an ER that is specifically

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designed for mental health and mental illnesses when

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they were going through some significant psychosis.

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And in those moments, it just blew me away.

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And I would say just as an encouragement to our listeners to

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we don't have to be the psychiatrist, we need to be with. We

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need to sit with and be with people

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going through hardship, and they're not people to be feared,

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they're people to be with and to learn. And not

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as me, the rescuer, but to say, how can I support

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you asking the doctors and people in

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knowledge, how can we be better supported? And you made reference

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to sanctuary, mental health, and we've often made reference to

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them and we'll put the link in again in our show notes. But there is

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a good resource there for churches, small groups

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to learn together how to be places of safety, how

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to understand mental illnesses, mental health.

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And what does that look like to be places of

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inclusivity for people going through a lot of

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differences. I just want to encourage people to

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check out that resource. Well, and there's another excellent one

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for Canadians. It's a YouTube channel. It's

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entitled living well with schizophrenia. And the

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young lady's name is Lauren, L a V r I

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N. She's out in BC, she's a social worker

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and she's in her thirties. I think she has

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beautiful YouTube videos and

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a couple of hundreds in terms of fantastic topics

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for people to learn about this. Okay,

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we'll put that in the show notes as well. Well, Chris, there's so many

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things that we could talk about yet, and we've learned so much

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already, but it is the end of our episode. Is there any

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concluding thoughts that you would like to end our episode with?

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So I wouldn't wish that pastors would in their pastoral prayer,

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but those who still do that would periodically begin, say,

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and Lord, we don't forget today those who may be among

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us and outside of us who are struggling with middle

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anguish, light and depression or schizophrenia. And we ask

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for the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ from the Holy Spirit to minister to

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him. That's all he got aside. We do it with the physical,

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every pastoral prayer. But anyway, here's one

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of my sayings. If you're going to have schizophrenia, this is the best day to

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have it. How can I say that? Because we know more than ever

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before and what helps. And then my

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parting words can be, well, y'all go in peace, not to

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pieces. I love that.

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Thank you so much, Chris, for joining us on the podcast today,

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listeners. Again, you could check the show notes for all those links for the sanctuary

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mental health course and the resources that Chris recommended. You can

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also go to our website, Journeywithcare ca

Speaker: 00:30:33

podcast to find out more. You can comment and

Speaker: 00:30:36

share it. Reach me through in the Schizophrenia Society of

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Canada. I live in Steinbeck, Manitoba.

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Excellent. So we will also add Chris's information if you'd like to contact him

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and ask him any questions. It sounds like he's willing to help out

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there as well. So thank you so much, Chris, for coming on with us today.

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Thank you so listeners, for the coming weeks we are actually taking a

Speaker: 00:30:58

four week little bit of a break. It's going to be shorter

Speaker: 00:31:02

episodes. We got some stories to share with you as you enjoy

Speaker: 00:31:05

your summer. Use that time to catch up on some of these longer

Speaker: 00:31:09

episodes and enjoy the short stories at the same time. We are calling it

Speaker: 00:31:13

the summer speedos. Just a

Speaker: 00:31:17

little bit of a play on words there. So enjoy.

Speaker: 00:31:20

Enjoy these four weeks. Yeah, we'll see you back very

Speaker: 00:31:24

soon. Thank you for joining another

Speaker: 00:31:27

conversation on Journey with care, where we inspire

Speaker: 00:31:31

curious Canadians on their path of faith and living life with

Speaker: 00:31:34

purpose in community. Journey with Care is an initiative of Care

Speaker: 00:31:38

Impact, a canadian charity dedicated to connecting and equipping the

Speaker: 00:31:42

whole church to journey well in community. You can visit their website

Speaker: 00:31:46

at careimpact, CA or visit journeywithcare CA to get

Speaker: 00:31:49

more information on weekly episodes, journey with prayer, and details

Speaker: 00:31:53

about our upcoming events and meetups. You can also leave us a

Speaker: 00:31:57

message, share your thoughts, and connect with like minded

Speaker: 00:32:00

individuals who are on their own journeys of faith and purpose.

Speaker: 00:32:04

Thank you for sharing this podcast and helping these stories reach the

Speaker: 00:32:07

community. Together we can explore explore ways to journey in a good way

Speaker: 00:32:11

and always remember to stay curious.