Differently Wired in Community | Introduction With Guest, Corinne Thomas
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Description
How can churches become more inclusive for individuals with disabilities, neurodiversities, and mental illnesses? This conversation on Journey With Care dives into the pressing need for trauma-informed, welcoming communities that recognize and celebrate the unique gifts of every individual. Hosts Johan Heinrichs and Wendi Park speak with Pastor Corinne Thomas of Center Street Church in Calgary, who shares her journey of creating a ministry that supports nearly 100 individuals with special needs and their families. Highlights include stories of empowerment, practical steps for inclusivity, and the importance of intentional design and volunteer training.
Time Stamps
[03:56] Volunteered for 30 years, now pastor of ministry.
[07:40] Inclusive community for differently wired individuals.
[12:28] Improving church accessibility through renovations and innovation.
[14:48] Praise for inclusive church and facilities.
[17:52] Manic individual discusses self-harm, seeks help.
[21:12] Resource for churches to create safe congregations.
[24:21] Centre Street Church is accepting of differences.
[28:00] Every person has unique gifts and abilities.
[32:37] Diverse guest series encourages listener involvement and feedback.
[33:29] Making the gospel accessible to special needs.
Sanctuary Mental Health: https://sanctuarymentalhealth.org/
Guest Links
Centre Street Church: https://cschurch.ca/
Other Links
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Transcript
What does loving your neighbor actually look like? This
Speaker:is Journey with Care, where curious Canadians get inspired to
Speaker:love others well through real life stories and honest
Speaker:conversations.
Speaker:Hey, before we get started, I just wanted to remind listeners that Journey with
Speaker:Prayer, our 5 minute prayer and activation series based
Speaker:on each Journey with Care episode can be found on its own podcast
Speaker:feed. Find it on your favorite podcast player or check the show notes to
Speaker:subscribe and follow. Let's take these interviews from the head to the
Speaker:heart every week on Journey with Prayer. Okay.
Speaker:We are back with the Journey with Care podcast. It's Johan here. I missed
Speaker:last week because as Wendy mentioned, I was working on a special
Speaker:little project that more information will be coming out soon.
Speaker:And, Wendy, we are kicking off a new series. Yeah. I'm excited
Speaker:that, we have a new series kicking off today called Differently
Speaker:Wired Together, and we've got several episodes in
Speaker:store that, I think our listeners are in for a treat. In this series,
Speaker:we can expect to hear from a lot of different people with different perspectives
Speaker:and experiences, related to neurodiversities
Speaker:and people with disabilities, people living with mental illness,
Speaker:and those that are caregiving in these spaces. It is a place
Speaker:that I I feel that we as a church have a lot to talk about
Speaker:and a lot to learn and grow in to create belonging
Speaker:for the whole community because there's an illusion that there's this
Speaker:baseline of what normal is, and yet we often don't necessarily
Speaker:realize the challenges and
Speaker:the barriers that are there for people that Park
Speaker:differently wired. It's just a kind of broad term that we're referring to
Speaker:here. But to kick off our series, I am so excited. I
Speaker:met a pastor. As you know, I was in Calgary recently speaking at the
Speaker:one conference with Global Leadership Network Canada. And at
Speaker:this conference, I got to meet pastor at Center Street
Speaker:Church, Corinne Thomas. She's a pastor
Speaker:of special needs, and welcome to the podcast, Corinne.
Speaker:Thank you. I'm very excited to be here today. Well, I was so excited
Speaker:to meet you at your church in new facilities that,
Speaker:that are being launched there in Calgary and the many good things that you're doing,
Speaker:but particularly the role that you have. Can you tell us a
Speaker:little bit more about what you do at Center
Speaker:Street? And I'd also love to dig
Speaker:into what got you down this path. Well, yeah, I
Speaker:do a lot at the church, and and I just love every minute of
Speaker:it. So, actually, I'm gonna start back and tell you a little bit of how
Speaker:I got into it because it really plays into, I think, why I do what
Speaker:I do, and I love what I do. I felt God call me back
Speaker:when I was 16 years old to work with people with disabilities.
Speaker:There's nobody in my family. I'm not impacted that way. But just when I was
Speaker:16 years old, I was working at a summer camp and just had the opportunity
Speaker:to love on this young girl with Down syndrome, and that's
Speaker:just where my passion started. And so being relatively
Speaker:new to this, I wanted to go to university, so I enrolled in a
Speaker:college here in Calgary, and they actually needed to do a practicum
Speaker:before even being enrolled. And I wasn't going to Wendi Street Church
Speaker:at the time, but decided to contact them because I knew they had
Speaker:this newly formed special needs ministry. So I signed up and started
Speaker:teaching Sunday school to 3 kids with different diagnosis,
Speaker:and that was almost 30 years ago. I love what I hear you saying.
Speaker:It was that one girl, that one child in camp
Speaker:that changed the trajectory and gave you that moment. She taught
Speaker:you what you needed and awoke with something in you, and
Speaker:you just took one step in front of the other. And you started you made
Speaker:yourself available to teach these 3 children in a church that's
Speaker:beautiful. So then what happened? So like I was saying, it was
Speaker:almost 30 years that I was volunteering there. One of my passions is
Speaker:looking at the whole person and how important the spiritual
Speaker:component of this group of people is. And
Speaker:so that was just something always on my mind. But my career is
Speaker:actually mostly in the and I'm using quotation marks here, the secular
Speaker:disability world. I've worked in many different agencies and organizations,
Speaker:including government bodies, over the years. And why I
Speaker:say this and why it's really, neat, part of my story is 7 years
Speaker:ago, I came on as the pastor of the special needs ministry, totally
Speaker:thinking I was going to do this one role and do it well because
Speaker:God called me to it. So of course, he's gonna be with me and do
Speaker:all this. But I'm just seeing how my history of working
Speaker:in the secular world of disability has really broadened the
Speaker:scope of what we can do as a ministry to help families. It
Speaker:isn't just the spiritual component, which is what I love and what I'm passionate about,
Speaker:but it really is looking at the whole person and helping them and
Speaker:helping their families navigate through the complicated system of
Speaker:having a child with a disability. So I just love God's
Speaker:hand in my whole journey story. So Yeah. And
Speaker:I I love the fact that it was actually within the
Speaker:other sector outside the church that had something to teach
Speaker:you to bring into the church. How was that
Speaker:transition from from working with outside the church in these
Speaker:spaces in specialization that taught you a lot and had
Speaker:something to offer the church, how was that transition bringing that into a
Speaker:church setting? Oh, it was a real learning curve because the
Speaker:church is almost a different world when it comes to people
Speaker:with special needs, disabilities, looking at the whole person, the
Speaker:spiritual side, and just constantly going back to different bible passages
Speaker:and speaking about, you know, every person is made in the image of God. He
Speaker:created them with a purpose. They have gifts and talents and and things like that.
Speaker:That is missed a lot. It's getting there. Like, we have the gifts and
Speaker:capacities, approaches, and things like that, but they're very different, and it
Speaker:was a big learning curve for me. It very much shaped how we're
Speaker:able to really support and love the people that are
Speaker:part of this ministry. And my coordinator, also has a degree
Speaker:in community disability and rehab as well. And so it's
Speaker:really great to see the pairing that we're doing to bring both
Speaker:worlds somewhat together, but recognizing their differences, but being able to
Speaker:support in a really holistic manner. So I think it's been a blessing, but
Speaker:a challenge too. And do you have a large congregation
Speaker:in those that you are pastoring, at Center Street? I know
Speaker:Center Street in Calgary is a huge church. But what does that look
Speaker:like for those with special needs in your
Speaker:pastoral care? Well, we have, 2 very distinct groups
Speaker:that are part of the special needs ministry. Our adult ministry, which probably takes up
Speaker:about 75%, and we have close to probably a 100 families
Speaker:or individuals. Individuals, when they're adults, tend to make Center
Speaker:Street Church their church, and their parents can still attend their home
Speaker:church. So I'm not necessarily supporting whole families when it comes to the adult
Speaker:group, but there is almost a 100 of them, and I would say close to
Speaker:50 parents with younger children that we're supporting in in
Speaker:that world as well. So very different. And, of course, then we have
Speaker:the the ones that are kind of falling through the cracks that maybe have not
Speaker:a significant developmental disability, but still need some supports. We
Speaker:have one individual that, is in a wheelchair and should have a power
Speaker:chair, but he doesn't right now. And so just even having someone meet him at
Speaker:the door to wheel him into the worship center and then back out just to
Speaker:providing those back in support. So our group can attend church and be
Speaker:filled with the love of God and the messages that he has for them.
Speaker:Yeah. So you so that they feel included and are included
Speaker:in the bigger body of Christ. And and I guess that's one of the things
Speaker:that we're looking at in the differently wired. When we talk about
Speaker:that, each individual is so uniquely created and loved
Speaker:by God and and has different needs as we all have
Speaker:different needs, but I think a lot of people get by because we don't
Speaker:have any of neuro differences or or things like that.
Speaker:When we're looking at differently wired in community,
Speaker:we're we're looking at that we are all made in the image of God. We
Speaker:are all created differently with different unique experiences
Speaker:and wiring, giftings, and and certain tragedies
Speaker:or disabilities or other for whatever circumstance has
Speaker:created a package we each come with when we come into the church,
Speaker:and we don't wanna really focus on labels that they are this and that
Speaker:person is this. We wanna look at them as whole created beings
Speaker:in the image of God, each made equal in the image of God.
Speaker:But when we're looking at special needs, we have to also acknowledge that there are
Speaker:certain things that in order to love them, their true
Speaker:authentic self, we need to accept them for who they are and what they bring
Speaker:and to see them for who they really are. And so rather than
Speaker:looking at the labeling of, like, you will hear the term out
Speaker:there in society, neurodiversities, what we're looking at is what
Speaker:is it like for a person with autism to experience
Speaker:church, and how can we really love them? When a person comes in
Speaker:with ADHD, what does that look like, and what is their experience? How
Speaker:can we accommodate so that they really feel connected and belonging?
Speaker:These are some things that, speak near and dear to my heart because I
Speaker:I live with people with these diversities. And quite honestly,
Speaker:there's a lot of churches we cannot be part of, not because churches are trying
Speaker:to be unwelcoming, but they just there's signals and things
Speaker:that they just do not fit. I think of neurodiversities,
Speaker:as really like Apple and Android. It's not so much of a disability, but they're
Speaker:just we're just wired differently, and I wouldn't have known this had I not walked
Speaker:with with others. Do you experience that as well? Oh, absolutely.
Speaker:Everybody comes with their own set of things that make them
Speaker:unique, and we wanna work on having the goal of acceptance,
Speaker:belonging. And so what does that work look like? Working with them, working
Speaker:with their parents. For example, we have one family who who has a
Speaker:son on the spectrum, and, yeah, he cannot attend church. Our church is
Speaker:huge, like you saw. Like, we have, I think, 2,000 people that can sit in
Speaker:our worship center. That is just too much for some of our people. And
Speaker:so we have an overflow room that was just available that
Speaker:if church ever got too full, usually on Easter or Christmas, that we would open
Speaker:it up for them. And so I just went to our guest services team and
Speaker:I said, hey, if we have this room already, can we just open it up
Speaker:at the beginning of the service and just have families come? And it's
Speaker:right near our west door, so they basically 5 families,
Speaker:because 4
Speaker:or 5 families, because we've just launched this since Easter, so it's still pretty
Speaker:new. But an opportunity for them to come. And it's not specifically, you
Speaker:know, a sensory room or a disability room or anything like that. It's just
Speaker:a space that people can come even if the church is too loud. Like, yeah,
Speaker:sometimes our music gets loud. Sometimes the lights are a little bit bright
Speaker:for people. So it's just where we've dimmed the lights, the music or the sound
Speaker:is quieter, and it's a smaller space. Everybody is welcome in that space
Speaker:just as much as people are welcome in our big worship center. It is good
Speaker:to see that there is a church out there that's getting ahead of the
Speaker:curb and making a space for Getting ahead? I think they're catching
Speaker:up. Because everywhere else in society, in the malls and and
Speaker:schools, they're doing this. I think it's beautiful that the church is doing it. The
Speaker:movie theaters have caught on to this. Like, they have nights where it's a lot
Speaker:quieter, where the lights are on a little bit, so it's not so much
Speaker:contrast in there. So it's really good that the church is
Speaker:starting to catch up hopefully, and we have a lot of work to do, obviously.
Speaker:So I love it. And, also, this is a a neat fun fact. Yes. You
Speaker:need space to do it, and some churches will have those constraints. But it's
Speaker:not a huge budgetary item. It's just a matter of seeing the
Speaker:child, seeing the family and the needs, and and really listening. You
Speaker:you wouldn't have known that they needed this had you not listened to that
Speaker:family and their sense of belonging. And and
Speaker:whatever we come with, we know when we fit. We know when we
Speaker:are we are cherished and beloved, and and you made that
Speaker:accommodation, which is which is beautiful. Then we have some more obvious
Speaker:things, like you were talking about somebody, in a wheelchair.
Speaker:There's simple things of becoming more accessible
Speaker:for, like, physical disabilities and and other things.
Speaker:What kind of accommodations have you had to make for
Speaker:people with visible disabilities? It's about making
Speaker:the the church accessible in terms of physical
Speaker:situations as much as possible. Like, with all of our renovations, for instance,
Speaker:we've widened all of our hallways because we have a couple of people that are
Speaker:wheelchairs that are actually in oversized wheelchairs. So, yeah, we've met the
Speaker:the building standards, but we've exceeded them by making hallways a little bit
Speaker:better, bigger. We've made a lot of open spaces, lots
Speaker:of areas where, yeah, there is things that are just movable
Speaker:so that we're not set with a big board table in the middle of a
Speaker:room, like traditional kind of ways. So there's lots of multi use
Speaker:spaces. I'm very excited with our new space. We actually do have a sensory
Speaker:room that we're developing, and I'm super excited to be able to use that
Speaker:when it's done. We are in the process of working with a consultant to get
Speaker:it all put together, but just opportunities for those that need a little
Speaker:bit more stimulus or those that need a little bit less and how
Speaker:working through that as an opportunity for kids or adults that just
Speaker:need help with regulation. But another part of it too is
Speaker:just really taking time to train our volunteers on how
Speaker:to just navigate because that's one of the big things that I see
Speaker:is people don't know what they don't know. There's dhikma out there. There's
Speaker:discrimination out there. I hate to say it, but it's true in our churches. It's
Speaker:there as well. So raising awareness and just providing extra
Speaker:training, even as simple as how do you talk to someone who is nonverbal?
Speaker:We have one guy that is the most social guy, and he's wired to be
Speaker:social, but he's not very limited in a traditional speaking, but he has
Speaker:an iPad. So just going around and talking to a few key people
Speaker:saying Wendi he comes up to you, take the time because he's gonna type it
Speaker:out on his iPad. So take that time and do that. And so he
Speaker:has made some really great connections and he feels like he belongs and he does
Speaker:belong because he's made these connections because me going behind the
Speaker:scenes and and supporting him so that he can be successful in
Speaker:terms of having a place and feeling connected. And so I feel that
Speaker:that's a lot of what we do as a special needs ministry sometimes,
Speaker:not, is like just being the back end to build a
Speaker:structure and a foundation so that people can be more successful, not
Speaker:be scared, not know what to do so they don't do anything. And I think
Speaker:that that just raising that awareness has just come a long way for our church
Speaker:community just to feel more comfortable with this population that is more
Speaker:and more visible within our community, our church community. I
Speaker:love that because what you're you're telling me is that that belonging,
Speaker:that sense of belonging is cocreated together
Speaker:with the volunteer and the one with
Speaker:whatever presenting disability that they're learning together to to
Speaker:connect together and not just being served,
Speaker:but to actually have something to offer and to teach the rest of
Speaker:the church that, what belonging looks like. And that
Speaker:is a beautiful example. And and I saw that firsthand in in just the
Speaker:facilities that you created and everything, and I I think that's just a beautiful thing.
Speaker:I I would imagine that if I was the person on this
Speaker:journey in a wheelchair, if I rolled through those those
Speaker:hallways, I would feel seen and I would feel loved
Speaker:beyond words. Right? Beyond saying Jesus loves you just the way
Speaker:you are, and yet you're being squeezed out of the hallway and
Speaker:and normal interactions wouldn't do it. But
Speaker:you really demonstrated it, and I think that's that's
Speaker:takes a lot of intentionality and putting it into budget
Speaker:so that churches put their their money where their mouth is. If they say
Speaker:that everybody's equal, how are we reflecting that to create that
Speaker:equality within our spaces in a very practical sense, in the
Speaker:sensory rooms, and those things? Because when I came through your church, I'm like,
Speaker:oh, this is where where my family could fit, and I
Speaker:I loved that. I felt loved as a parent, in your hallways.
Speaker:Oh, well, that's good. Glad to hear that. Yeah. There's this other aspect
Speaker:that, sometimes in is a little bit more invisible.
Speaker:Although, I would say now in society, it's becoming more common
Speaker:in a healthy way to talk about it is some of the complexities
Speaker:of mental illness that some people live with that
Speaker:isn't necessarily a disability or special needs per se, but
Speaker:sometimes there's a lot of comorbidities and there's a lot of of
Speaker:things that interfere with people's experience
Speaker:with church in society and how they can go about day
Speaker:to day finding that belonging. Have you had any
Speaker:experiences in your ministry helping people through
Speaker:some mental illnesses and supporting them in that journey as a
Speaker:pastor. Unfortunately, at this point, we don't really have a
Speaker:formal ministry for that demographic, and we've talked about
Speaker:it a lot. It pairs often with the special needs ministry
Speaker:just because of that comorbidity, component. And so I
Speaker:do a lot. And then it also we have, what's called a center for the
Speaker:city. So that's where people that are, struggling
Speaker:financially or need a bit of extra support, new to Canada, that kind of thing.
Speaker:And so both of our areas tend to have a higher demographic
Speaker:of people with mental illness. And so we have talked quite a lot
Speaker:together and and trying to build a structure of
Speaker:pastoral care in terms of being there,
Speaker:listening, praying, but also knowing when to actually access
Speaker:these resources that are out there. Just this past week, I had a
Speaker:conversation with someone who actually don't know what I I
Speaker:can tell there was some sort of mental health concern. He was
Speaker:presenting very manic, and I was just listening to him,
Speaker:and and then he just started talking about if, you know, if he doesn't get
Speaker:help, there's gonna be self harm and and things like that. And so he was
Speaker:gonna come to the church and come talk to me some more or find another
Speaker:pastor to talk to because maybe a man might be better. And he he was
Speaker:just all over the place. And finally, I just stopped him, and I said, I
Speaker:think you actually need to call 211, which is has a distress
Speaker:number because at first, I was feeling a little bit guilty about that because I'm
Speaker:like, surely we can do something to support this individual. And absolutely,
Speaker:we prayed together and and things like that. But just knowing that we have
Speaker:external resources in this season when we don't have really any type
Speaker:of formal ministry. But just being able to walk alongside
Speaker:someone, be there to pray for them, get updates from them,
Speaker:knowing that you care. Yes. You can tell me the same story 20 times and
Speaker:I will still listen. I still love you. You are still a child of God
Speaker:in the midst of this. No, we don't understand all of what's going on,
Speaker:but God does. And let's see how we can work
Speaker:with community resources to to support in that
Speaker:recognizing our limitations as a pastoral team or
Speaker:as a church in terms of what we can and can't do. And he is
Speaker:now, yeah, connected with a distress center and they are they're helping. I
Speaker:mean, he still wants to talk to me every day and that's fine. I don't
Speaker:have a problem connecting with him, praying with him, and just being
Speaker:available. And I know that that really helps him feel that he has a
Speaker:place within the church and he is still getting the help he needs.
Speaker:Just one very, pertinent example that's been Park of my week this
Speaker:week, and I know many fall through the cracks still, but this is
Speaker:just one story that just really fresh in my mind. And and, again, not
Speaker:doing everything we possibly could, but it's a starting place. No. I
Speaker:think that's really good, Corinne, because I think no matter what role of
Speaker:ministry, whether we're in a pastoral role or part of
Speaker:any type of ministry, these are things that we
Speaker:will encounter. It's not necessarily even a department for a
Speaker:church to work through. These are not people to be fixed, but people
Speaker:to find belonging with. And and you even gave that beautiful example of referral.
Speaker:Like, we we're not here to fix people, but we can we can hold space
Speaker:for them. Right? And even in our ministries, we are going to
Speaker:encounter mental illness and and people going through challenges,
Speaker:and
Speaker:being able to accept people however they present,
Speaker:but create felt safety and belonging that you obviously
Speaker:created with this this individual, which is beautiful. Yeah. And I just
Speaker:one other part of it, sorry, I just wanted to add is, we have a
Speaker:monthly potluck, and it is designated for our special needs ministry and their
Speaker:families. But he's like, well, can I come? And I'm like, absolutely.
Speaker:This is a a safe place for you to come and
Speaker:absolutely be a part of this. We don't, you know, we're not exclusive in terms
Speaker:of, oh, Paula, you have to have a developmental disability to get in. No. We
Speaker:welcome everyone. And so it's next Friday night. So, you know, I'm
Speaker:praying that he does come and find some connection within our community
Speaker:because, again, we're not an exclusive community in and of itself either. We
Speaker:want people to find belonging within our community no matter
Speaker:what they come with in terms of diagnosis or
Speaker:just lived experience that they just need a place where they can connect
Speaker:in this season. So Yeah. And there's a a cool resource.
Speaker:Friends of Care Impact, Daniel Whitehead runs a
Speaker:ministry called Sanctuary Mental Health. They have a beautiful
Speaker:resource and free resource for churches to lead in
Speaker:in small groups, beautiful resources, not to try to get a
Speaker:handle on mental illness, but how do we create congregations that
Speaker:are safe places? How do we work through our own barriers so that we can
Speaker:create belonging and safety? Because we might feel that we have
Speaker:the the the perfect, most welcoming church, but those that are
Speaker:going through it could be mental health, it could be disabilities
Speaker:or neurodivergence, all the things that we've been talking about, they will know if
Speaker:they're accepted, But we often have those blind spots. So this is a
Speaker:beautiful, graceful way of bringing awakening and awareness
Speaker:to everyday individuals on how do we all create that
Speaker:safety for, people going through through different
Speaker:illnesses and, complexities that we might not be familiar with.
Speaker:And we don't have to know everything. We don't have to be psychiatrist to to
Speaker:be able to help to create that belonging and presence. So
Speaker:And I believe they just came out with one for teenagers as well. So
Speaker:Yes. It is coming out for youth as well. There there's a new one coming
Speaker:out, and I I would highly recommend that churches all
Speaker:churches, check that out. Yeah. We did it as a as a small
Speaker:group here at Care Impact, and it was really well done, really
Speaker:impactful. I've worked with people with mental illness in the past,
Speaker:and I wish I woulda had this information. And I believe the whole church really
Speaker:needs this. Definitely recommend that, and we'll we'll throw in the show notes as well.
Speaker:And another one that doesn't necessarily fit within what we would
Speaker:call special needs or disabilities or
Speaker:mental illness. But this whole area of people coming
Speaker:into our churches, into our communities with
Speaker:complex trauma, whether in their past or they're
Speaker:living through, current traumas right now.
Speaker:And that's something that our team has been passionately training
Speaker:churches to be trauma informed and to create felt
Speaker:safety in our churches. There's so many things that can
Speaker:alienate people. They they have this radar
Speaker:if they belong or not. Is it a safe place for them or not?
Speaker:The most welcoming churches won't realize that, oh, but if
Speaker:you don't fit this bill, you you're not really gonna fit in, or I can't
Speaker:really drop my mask. I have to pretend everything's okay. And so that
Speaker:is another area that actually is a barrier. It
Speaker:actually changes our biology and our our our wiring
Speaker:when we go through trauma, that there is healing, but something that
Speaker:also could be looked at to reduce the barrier
Speaker:within churches to for people coming that are differently
Speaker:wired. I would love to shift over to your personal journey
Speaker:and and dive into some of more insights. There's so much within you that
Speaker:you come into this ministry with. Can you share a
Speaker:personal experience or encounter that has deeply
Speaker:impacted your understanding of inclusivity
Speaker:and why you are contending so hard in
Speaker:Calgary to create supports for the people you pastor?
Speaker:Well, I've just felt that Centre Street Church in general is quite
Speaker:accepting of those that are differently wired, and
Speaker:I'm sometimes just blown away. I'll sit in our cafe and I'll just observe
Speaker:the different engagements and interactions. And like you said, people are saying,
Speaker:hi, they're they're welcoming. Hey, sit together. Or, you
Speaker:know, it's okay that, you know, someone maybe awkwardly comes and interrupts a
Speaker:conversation or they're very visible in our church, and I
Speaker:just love that that generally they are accepted. Now does that
Speaker:mean that they Park belonging yet? Not really, but it's it's a
Speaker:definite start, and I just love that. I have one story that, we'll have a
Speaker:couple of stories to kinda speak into this. But one story specific
Speaker:is we had a gentleman with Down syndrome who worked in our cafe
Speaker:for many years, and there's a lot of labeling,
Speaker:that was going on at the time that everybody wanted to know what everybody's diagnosis
Speaker:was. And I was just, like, a little bit frustrated because I'm, like, doesn't matter.
Speaker:We they're persons first. Like, they're people. They have names. Let's use those
Speaker:identities. And so I was sitting there, and I overheard one
Speaker:conversation on the one side of me. They're like, oh, I don't know where to
Speaker:put this tray. And across the room, he was putting things away
Speaker:and he was wearing a baseball cap. And the gentleman said, hey, that guy over
Speaker:there with the baseball cap, he's the one that you need to talk to for
Speaker:putting trays away. And my heart just about exploded because I'm like, oh, it wasn't
Speaker:the guy with the down syndrome. It wasn't any of that. It was just
Speaker:so very exciting, and it just filled my heart to hear that
Speaker:people are getting the message that we're trying to say. And again, we
Speaker:are going behind the scenes and just trying to empower people so
Speaker:they are more comfortable. Like, we have one gentleman that just,
Speaker:he will seek out one of our participants and he'll ask every
Speaker:day, how is it going? What's new? And they'll sit together and have coffee.
Speaker:And that's just been a very organic friendship just just because she's
Speaker:around. We have a midweek program that runs Tuesdays Wednesdays.
Speaker:It started as not everybody impacted by disability can attend
Speaker:church because of situations and staffing and agency
Speaker:things. And so we started offering that on Tuesdays
Speaker:Wednesdays and and just different opportunities at different levels of understanding. So
Speaker:we have music for those that really can hear the gospel through
Speaker:music. We have a bible study for those that are wanna be disciples more
Speaker:intentionally. We have horticulture for those that are more interested in learning
Speaker:about Jesus, but through creative means like horticulture. And then we have a
Speaker:social club, but we also have volunteering and just
Speaker:how the volunteers are appreciated. They clean the worship center 1 morning
Speaker:a week and people will go out of their way to come and just say
Speaker:hello and just thank them for what they're doing. And
Speaker:I just really appreciate that they're being acknowledged for
Speaker:being in church. And I mean, it shouldn't be that way. Everyone should just be
Speaker:more natural with it, but it's just a cool thing that is growing and
Speaker:developing and changing within the church environment. And So
Speaker:you're actually creating belonging by
Speaker:involvement and not just serving people,
Speaker:in a certain sector, but they are being
Speaker:grafted in into volunteer positions and and ministry leads. So
Speaker:they are actually leading your church into a a greater
Speaker:understanding of inclusion and, being blessed.
Speaker:That is beautiful. I actually worked in that sector for several years
Speaker:where I provided supportive employment for those living with
Speaker:disabilities. I always ask the question, like, where is the church and
Speaker:where can he contribute to the church? Why am I not seeing
Speaker:these with Down syndrome in the church? Where is that safe space? So
Speaker:hearing what you're doing here is really exciting even for me,
Speaker:and I just have hope for for those that I worked with in the past.
Speaker:And I think there's a huge piece there that could go untapped and
Speaker:missed that every single person is made in the image of God,
Speaker:and they have inherent gifts and abilities that light them up,
Speaker:that actually contribute to the body of Christ. I think of of some
Speaker:people that I know on the autism spectrum, perfect pitch,
Speaker:best sound, like, you you couldn't even get it on a computer.
Speaker:Why aren't they running our IT and our RPA system? Because
Speaker:they will have it top notch. They are gonna cringe and walk out of your
Speaker:building because the sound isn't right, but they've got it. What if
Speaker:we use their expertise in these ways to to be
Speaker:able to serve the body of Christ rather than be people that
Speaker:are kind of on the fringe that will will care for it of kind of
Speaker:charity. I think there's a lot of abilities there.
Speaker:No matter what the person is coming into the building
Speaker:with, let's be curious on how has
Speaker:God wired them, and what are the image bearing qualities within
Speaker:them that the body of Christ would be missing? Because they are
Speaker:spiritual gifts too, and they can contribute. Oh, the prophetic. And
Speaker:there's so many ways that I have been ministered to by people
Speaker:that others would say might not. We we don't know what to do
Speaker:with. You know? And I would like to just add with that too is
Speaker:is not to give up. Like, we have one gentleman who
Speaker:is a little bit more complex, on the autism spectrum, but
Speaker:he wanted to volunteer with kids. He wanted to be a one to Wendi buddy.
Speaker:And so we put him in one environment and it failed miserably.
Speaker:So he thought he was done and the children's ministry was kind of like, okay.
Speaker:Well, that didn't work. And so I just prayed about it because I'm like, no.
Speaker:This is his desire. He wants like, this isn't the end. And
Speaker:so we figured out what was it that was lacking and that put him in
Speaker:an environment, and he is thriving as a one to
Speaker:one buddy within a different environment that he is able to help
Speaker:this child. He's learning skills. He loves it. He's
Speaker:making connections, friends. He's part of a community of a that huddles
Speaker:together every Sunday before church and prays together. He
Speaker:shares his comments, hopes, dreams with them, and it's
Speaker:just you know, So we can't give up just because we've tried once and said,
Speaker:oh, you know what? Sorry. That didn't work. But we've just gotta keep trying and
Speaker:finding that niche because there is, I believe, there is a niche
Speaker:for everyone to give of their gifts and talents to the church.
Speaker:It's gonna look messy. It's gonna look complicated, but just
Speaker:need to be able to be willing to try. And
Speaker:just that belonging within the church will come when we are
Speaker:successful and we team together to work that way. I just
Speaker:love being able to see those success stories. And maybe
Speaker:that's the challenge to the broader church, those that haven't been facing
Speaker:some of these disabilities or special needs
Speaker:that we need to overcome our insecurities and get vulnerable
Speaker:and tread into areas that we would otherwise
Speaker:not, but we're gonna take risks. We're gonna do things differently
Speaker:for the sake of inclusion, for the sake of creating belonging
Speaker:even when we feel uncomfortable. We often don't realize
Speaker:it. And I think also maybe you've experienced this in a in a day to
Speaker:day way. But when people come in with
Speaker:a disability or an exceptionality that is
Speaker:different, it makes their life harder to navigate. Let's just face it. There are
Speaker:some more complexities. When there's some things that
Speaker:are harder, I often find these
Speaker:individuals are exceptional in other ways. So
Speaker:maybe they don't have visibility. Maybe they don't have eyesight.
Speaker:But they are attuned to the emotions in the room, or they
Speaker:have a beautiful voice. Like, they excel in other ways
Speaker:where they don't have abilities in in certain capacities, and
Speaker:they actually have something to teach us in exceptional ways
Speaker:because of that. And looking at how they're wired too in terms of
Speaker:even just people skills or yeah. Like, we have one lady who
Speaker:was visually impaired and had cerebral palsy, and she
Speaker:loved greeting people, and she was so friendly. And so for many
Speaker:years, she was the main greeter at one of our doors. Everybody knew
Speaker:her. She was just like such an important part of
Speaker:that ministry, that it's a guest services ministry and of just
Speaker:welcoming people and helping them feel welcome. And, yeah, you wouldn't necessarily think it
Speaker:because, yeah, she's visually impaired and doesn't have much to give in
Speaker:our traditional sense. But, just figuring that
Speaker:out and then just empowering them to move forward to to be
Speaker:all they can be because of who god created them. Well, Corinne,
Speaker:there is so many things that we could continue talking on. We will have
Speaker:to have you back because I know there is more that we could dive into.
Speaker:I wanna welcome listeners to put in their questions and
Speaker:feedback, and maybe, we can follow-up on this
Speaker:conversation. This is the kickoff to our differently wired in community
Speaker:series, and and I'm excited that we're gonna be bringing guests on that are
Speaker:living in some of the exceptionalities that we've been talking about.
Speaker:They're gonna be sharing their story of inclusion or
Speaker:their challenges that they've had within the churches, and we're gonna have some rich
Speaker:conversations of them and also some other caregivers that are
Speaker:living out in these these ways. And so, Corinne, thank you
Speaker:so much for taking the time to to be with us.
Speaker:Are there any final thoughts or words of encouragement that you would love
Speaker:to, share with our listeners? Well,
Speaker:I think an important part of belonging is absolutely making
Speaker:the facility accessible like we talked about earlier, but I just wanted to
Speaker:talk briefly about making the gospel accessible to them. And
Speaker:I think that that is something that I would love to challenge more
Speaker:churches to do. Their traditional ways don't work for our
Speaker:group, a lot of them. And so what does it look like to
Speaker:introduce discipleship to someone? You know, is it a group of
Speaker:people coming together and doing a bible study together and how they can be
Speaker:challenged to grow in their relationship with Jesus? And what does
Speaker:that look like to, yeah, just to
Speaker:make the gospel accessible in terms of that type of example?
Speaker:I'm trying to think of an example right now, but just that's just
Speaker:something that God has really placed in my heart these last few months as
Speaker:we're building a room and a space for our special needs community. He's kinda
Speaker:saying, yeah. That's good. But now what about the gospel? That is what's you know,
Speaker:God is with a great commission. He has called all of us to go make
Speaker:disciples of everyone. And so the traditional gospel may
Speaker:not work for our group. And so, Corinne, what
Speaker:does that look like? What are you gonna do about it? So that's kind of
Speaker:my challenge to, put out there is how do we make the gospel
Speaker:accessible as well? That's great. Thank you so much. And,
Speaker:yes, we are looking forward to more conversations hopefully with you in the future,
Speaker:and we have some exciting guests coming on to tell their stories as well.
Speaker:So everyone out there, be sure to share the podcast with, your
Speaker:friends and family because this is something we wanna see normalized in
Speaker:the church where everybody can participate. Everybody has a role.
Speaker:Everybody has giftings that the church needs. And the Lord desires
Speaker:us all to be part of this great and wonderful
Speaker:church family. Thanks for listening. We will see you next week.
Speaker:Thank you for joining another conversation on Journey with Care,
Speaker:where we inspire curious Canadians on their path of faith and
Speaker:living life with purpose in community. Journey with Care is an
Speaker:initiative of Care Impact, a Canadian charity dedicated to connecting
Speaker:and equipping the whole church to journey well in community. You
Speaker:can visit their website at careimpact. Ca or visit journeywithcare.
Speaker:Ca to get more information on weekly episodes, Journey with
Speaker:Prayer, and details about our upcoming events and meetups.
Speaker:You can also leave us a message, share your thoughts, and connect with like
Speaker:minded individuals who are on their own journeys of faith and purpose.
Speaker:Thank you for sharing this podcast and helping these stories reach the
Speaker:community. Together, we can explore ways to journey in a good way.
Speaker:And always remember to stay curious.
