From Meh to Meaningful – A Cynic’s Guide to Compassion with Troy Lydiate
Partner with work of CareImpact and Journey With Care!
Description
What drives us to retreat into cynicism, and how can we find our way back to genuine compassion?
This conversation features Troy Lydiate, who eloquently gets into the roots and implications of cynicism. Through his rich insights, Troy challenges the notion of cynicism as a protective mechanism, urging listeners to embrace vulnerability and curiosity. By sharing real-life examples, including his personal experiences in the music industry and working with Apologetics Canada, he illustrates how cynicism often stems from unmet expectations but can be dismantled by fostering genuine human connections and a renewed faith. He even touches on Wes Huff's conversation with Joe Rogan.
This discussion encourages listeners to question their own biases, explore the transformative power of seeing beyond the surface, and reengage with their communities through a lens of hope and compassion.
Time Stamps
[01:00] "Humans of New York"
[03:52] Cynicism in Church Culture
[08:52] Cycle of Idolatry and Downfall
[12:21] Wes Huff and Joe Rogan
[16:14] Reflecting on Judgment and Risk
[17:13] Manifesting Faith Beyond Cynicism
[22:17] Faith Amidst Fear and Miracles
[23:47] Reconciliation through Shared Conversations
[29:16] Living Faith in Action
[32:51] Balancing Experience and Intellect
[35:34] Passionate Perspectives in Apologetics
[38:59] Fostering Conversations Through Active Listening
[42:18] Segment - Care Lingo Apologetics
Guest Links
Troy Lydiate - You can follow his ministerial journey on Instagram at Prairie Boy Troy. For his music, search for "Scribe Music" on any platform or follow him on Instagram at Scribe Music.
Apologetics Canada - https://apologeticscanada.com/
o explore more content from Troy's organization, visit Apologetics Canada's Instagram or check out their website.
Other Links
Join The CareImpact Podcast Group on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1PgzJWfkq9/
Reach out to us! https://careimpact.ca/podcast
Email: podcast@careimpact.ca
About the CarePortal: careimpact.ca/careportal
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Transcript
Me honoring that person has nothing to do with their perfection. It's me
Speaker:knowing that they've been made in the image of God. And so, just as much
Speaker:as they're susceptible to fail, there's also a very good
Speaker:opportunity for them to actually succeed. And I just want to be one of the
Speaker:people that's there to see. What a cynicism isn't just
Speaker:skepticism. It's self protection. And what if it's not
Speaker:just about doubting others, but about avoiding disappointment?
Speaker:We don't start out as cynical, but if somewhere along the way we get
Speaker:burned, and sometimes it's just easier to stay that
Speaker:way. But what if there's another way?
Speaker:This is Journey with Care, a podcast by Care Impact where
Speaker:curious Canadians find inspiration to love others well through real
Speaker:life stories and honest conversations.
Speaker:It's easy to slip into cynicism. But when it settles into
Speaker:indifference, we risk losing something far greater.
Speaker:It's one thing to question whether something will work, but after a while,
Speaker:if we're not careful, we just stop caring altogether. We hear about another
Speaker:initiative, another big idea, another story of someone trying to make a
Speaker:difference, and instead of engaging, we shrug and
Speaker:think, yeah, good luck with that. I think about Brandon
Speaker:Stanton, the creator of Humans in New York. Before he became a
Speaker:storyteller, he was living in a world that had nothing to do with people's stories.
Speaker:He was a bond trader, staring at screens, watching markets rise and
Speaker:fall, making decisions about things that didn't feel personal. And
Speaker:when you live like that, it's easy to get cynical, easy to believe that
Speaker:everything is just a transaction. And then he lost his job.
Speaker:And instead of scrambling to get back into that same world, he did
Speaker:something different. He picked up a camera.
Speaker:At first, he was just about taking pictures. But the more he stopped and
Speaker:talked to people, the more he realized everyone had a story.
Speaker:Strangers on park benches, people rushing down sidewalks, ordinary
Speaker:faces with extraordinary lives. And the more he
Speaker:listened, the more he cared. And the more he cared, the more he saw.
Speaker:What started as a personal project turned into something so much
Speaker:bigger. A movement that has connected millions of people
Speaker:across the world simply by reminding us that every person
Speaker:has a story worth hearing. And it makes me wonder,
Speaker:what if the biggest change we can make starts by simply
Speaker:choosing to see again? Choosing to care even when
Speaker:cynicism tells us that it's not worth it. So what do we do with
Speaker:that? How do we challenge that part of us that wants to disengage, to
Speaker:assume the worst, to stay in the safety of those cheap seats.
Speaker:That's what we're talking about today because cynicism might feel like
Speaker:wisdom. But if it keeps us from showing up, from believing
Speaker:in good, from actually caring, it's costing us much more
Speaker:than we think. Our guest today is Troy Lydiot,
Speaker:a creative and cultural thinker who has spent years navigating the tension
Speaker:between faith, culture, and compassion. Troy is the
Speaker:creative director at Apologetics Canada and host of the AC
Speaker:Podcast. Troy tackles through tough conversations about faith and
Speaker:meaning in a skeptical world. Under the name Scribe Music,
Speaker:Troy has released four studio albums using his music as a bridge
Speaker:between faith and culture, challenging cynicism, sparking
Speaker:honest conversations, and creating space for hope in a skeptical
Speaker:world. So, Wendy, we're gonna hand it off to you now to
Speaker:get this conversation started. Yeah. I would love to. Cynicism
Speaker:is what we're talking about today. And that's actually,
Speaker:I would say, Canada's unofficial love language, if
Speaker:I dare. Oof. We go there. But, Troy, what's a
Speaker:moment where your inner cynic kicked in hard?
Speaker:What's a moment is the the challenge in and of itself.
Speaker:Honestly, I think my where my cynicism has
Speaker:popped up the most is probably when it has come in the realm
Speaker:of certain church culture, I would say, for a prime
Speaker:example. Having people be genuine and
Speaker:having people actually mean what they say. And so for listeners who don't really
Speaker:know me for my music, anyway, I I've been a recording
Speaker:artist for over ten years. And the amount of times I've had
Speaker:different individuals, organizations say, hey, Troy. We wanna work with you. Hey,
Speaker:Troy. We're so excited to having different label
Speaker:representatives. And those sorts of people say, hey, man. We really love what you're
Speaker:doing, and we wanna partner with you. And naturally, as a young
Speaker:artist, I'd be like, wow. This sounds amazing. I would love to do something
Speaker:like that. And next thing you know, like, okay. But you just gotta pay this
Speaker:amount of money, and you can maybe be a part of it. Or, hey. Sorry.
Speaker:We wanted to do this thing, but it's just not formulating. And it just
Speaker:happened time and time again to the point where now I
Speaker:actively fight against my cynicism whenever a new email partnership comes
Speaker:up, and someone's like, hey. We wanna work with you. And I'm like, do you
Speaker:really? So that that's probably one of the most pertinent
Speaker:examples of cynicism, which is kinda creeping in my life. Well and
Speaker:you are for those that haven't heard, go on to Spotify or wherever.
Speaker:You can Google him for Scribe. You are an amazing
Speaker:recording artist resonating with so many people with my kids
Speaker:included. They were excited that I gotta talk with you.
Speaker:But I I relate to what you're saying, Troy. I I feel
Speaker:that sometimes also people love the innovation, the creativity,
Speaker:the the guts that it takes for my innovative team to do
Speaker:something different in Yeah. Between social services and the church, and they're like, wow.
Speaker:That's so cool. But I don't know if you are a follower of
Speaker:Brene Brown. She has this amazing quote in I think it's the book Daring
Speaker:Greatly. Cynicism and sarcasm are the first cousins that
Speaker:hang out in the cheap seats. They're not the real
Speaker:players on the field daring greatly. Yeah.
Speaker:To do the deep work, we have to get through that cynicism, and
Speaker:that goes vice versa. People might also be cynical
Speaker:of, k. Is your music legit? Is that spirit
Speaker:filled? Yes. Can we actually work with social services? And and
Speaker:cynicism is so entrenched here.
Speaker:Maybe to to pitch it this way, why do you think cynicism
Speaker:is so tempting?
Speaker:Well, I mean, I think when I when I think about cynicism, first and
Speaker:foremost, I think of it as a lack
Speaker:of faith in x, whether it's a person, place,
Speaker:or a thing. A person who, I think, becomes a
Speaker:cynic didn't start that way. And I think it's important to remember that, is you
Speaker:actually become a cynic. You're not born a cynic, whether it is
Speaker:unmet expectations or it is reasonable expectations
Speaker:not met. And that's when a person naturally,
Speaker:when those things are repeated, that's when a person becomes a cynic. They
Speaker:no longer have faith in a person following through Mhmm. Or
Speaker:something coming to pass. And per your
Speaker:question, I think one of the challenges for a person who
Speaker:falls into cynicism is that it actually becomes a comfortable
Speaker:place. We become comfortable with cynicism because it helps us build a
Speaker:barrier of protection around us. What's that that term? Aim
Speaker:low. Right? Or how does I I'm not exactly sure how this the saying goes
Speaker:exactly, but it's like if I keep my standards low, then I won't be disappointed.
Speaker:Right? If I aim high and I miss, then there's a greater
Speaker:opportunity for me to be disappointed. And so if I keep my expectations
Speaker:low, then the chances of me getting hurt because someone didn't
Speaker:meet those expectations is far greater. Right? So
Speaker:I've been finding that in order for me to really move
Speaker:past my cynicism, it's actually a call for me to allow myself
Speaker:to be put into the uncomfortable and actually allow people to just be people
Speaker:and and be okay with that. Yeah. I really like that reframe,
Speaker:Troy, because rather than just see
Speaker:cynicism at face value, we are asking the question, what's
Speaker:underneath that? Yeah. What are we masking? What are we not being
Speaker:vulnerable about? What are we protecting? Maybe for good reason.
Speaker:Your example case in point. There's good reason for it and to not
Speaker:shame ourselves for being cynical, but maybe not glorify it in the
Speaker:Canadian way that we tend
Speaker:to do. It it could be a form of passive aggression
Speaker:of not wanting to deal with the deeper rooted things. And,
Speaker:I think that's something that we really need to take to heart. How would you
Speaker:say cynicism, shapes our culture? Where do you see it
Speaker:prevalent? Even in your your interactions with Apologetics Canada that
Speaker:you're very much involved with, you must be dealing with it on a national
Speaker:scale in many on both sides, on the the faith side and also the
Speaker:secular. Where do you see that shaping our culture?
Speaker:Well, I think people are always on the tiptoes of the next
Speaker:catastrophe or the next person falling out of grace.
Speaker:And I think at the core of that is because, one, there's this huge
Speaker:issue of idolatry, like, just across the board. And
Speaker:so we raise people up so quickly that when
Speaker:they fall victim to their humanity, not to minimize what they've
Speaker:done, but when they fall victim to their humanity, we act
Speaker:surprised. Or we're very quick to just take them and throw them out
Speaker:and be like, see, this is what I thought was gonna happen. It's like, okay.
Speaker:So we went into celebrating this person with
Speaker:presuppositions and preconceived notions about what could happen
Speaker:there. It means that there wasn't a real faith that this person actually could
Speaker:be a person of integrity. Right? And you wanna talk about seeing with
Speaker:Apologetics Canada very practically. A lot of people have been hearing all
Speaker:this stuff about Wes Huff and everything that Wes Huff is doing. Right? The
Speaker:amount of people that were also watching just, okay. Well, let's
Speaker:see how long this lasts. Well, let's see wait till they find out
Speaker:that. And I'm like, what do we and I have the I have the
Speaker:the beauty of knowing Wes as a friend and a coworker.
Speaker:And you're talking about a guy who didn't ask for any of this. You talk
Speaker:about a guy who was just making content based on his field of study, who's
Speaker:working on his doctorate. The last thing he needed was to be the poster
Speaker:boy for all things apologetics and theology.
Speaker:Right? That's really cool. So do you feel that Canada is just it's a
Speaker:setup waiting for the shoe to drop to expose
Speaker:the humanity of everybody like Cuff? I I think so.
Speaker:Because I think there there also is a fear
Speaker:of people actually being genuine and good people.
Speaker:Mhmm. Because we I think honor is a really tough thing
Speaker:for people today because of cynicism.
Speaker:Right? I have a great pastor, and I love honoring my pastors.
Speaker:And some people have asked, like, man, you guys, like, speak really highly of
Speaker:your pastors. I mean, like, they're human like everybody else. I'm like, yes. They are.
Speaker:And they're actively pursuing being better people. They're actively
Speaker:pursuing being more integral, being more trustworthy,
Speaker:and ultimately walking out what the faith in
Speaker:Christ asks them to do. Me honoring that person has nothing to do
Speaker:with their perfection. It's me knowing that they've been made in the image of
Speaker:god. And so just as much as they're susceptible to fail,
Speaker:there's also a very good opportunity for them to actually succeed. And
Speaker:I just wanna be one of the people that's there to see it. I wonder
Speaker:if there's people that when they put on a pedestal like that, there's more
Speaker:cynicism that comes out. Like, thinking about Wes again, like, my my
Speaker:eighteen year old son is a huge Wes Huff fan, and this was before Joe
Speaker:Rogan. And then he got put on this pedestal. And then you look online and
Speaker:all the comments, and it's like, oh, well, he didn't say this. He didn't explain
Speaker:this properly. He didn't he wasn't outright preaching the gospel, and that's not what
Speaker:he was trying to do. Yeah. It it and and that's just it.
Speaker:Right? This is where I believe that the big
Speaker:brother cynicism is idolatry. Because I'm not gonna be a cynic
Speaker:towards the Taygo Westhoff situation if I'm not
Speaker:looking for someone to perfect it. Right? If I'm not
Speaker:looking for the person who's gonna who's gonna debunk Joe
Speaker:Rogan like, here's my honest thoughts. If West gives Joe
Speaker:Rogan the gospel, they live in two separate worlds, entirely different
Speaker:worlds. He gives Joe Rogan the gospel, which he did. Joe
Speaker:Rogan, right on his podcast, all of a sudden accepts Jesus Christ as his lord
Speaker:and savior. The next question that people need to ask
Speaker:is, now what? Because right now,
Speaker:as we're seeing, Joe Rogan does not have a kingdom minded
Speaker:accountability group that's gonna hold him up, that's going to help walk
Speaker:this this ministry out with him. Are they expecting Wes to do
Speaker:that? So Wes is supposed to forsake his family, the ministry he's a part of,
Speaker:the things that the lord has called him to back home where he lives. And
Speaker:so I don't think a lot of people are paying attention to that. If
Speaker:anything, anyone who may be in Joe's corner
Speaker:after Wes has delivered the gospel has a greater responsibility
Speaker:of men. Wes set it up for us. And look how receptive Joe was at
Speaker:least hearing it. Right? And I think this is
Speaker:why I I I'll say, like, one of the most dangerous things for a
Speaker:person who is living as a cynic is you're actually
Speaker:pulling yourself away from an actual faith and believing
Speaker:people can be good. And if you actually and as a believer,
Speaker:that actually is coming against what scripture is asking of me and telling me.
Speaker:Yeah. And and I think it it plays itself out in some
Speaker:very secretive, almost, like,
Speaker:like, in ways that we don't even realize it creeping in. Yeah.
Speaker:Especially when like, at Care Impact, we're all about seeing the church
Speaker:engage in community. Yeah. And social services bridging into that and saying,
Speaker:hey. Maybe there is something still left in the church that we can we can
Speaker:Yes. We can reconcile and work forward in a good way. And
Speaker:it
Speaker:sneaks in as, like, within the church, I hear it as much as I hear
Speaker:it as I just came off a call with government. But we've tried
Speaker:that before Yeah. And what happened historically? Or
Speaker:the government should handle it mentality Mhmm. Of, like
Speaker:like, that's not our business. We would have done it better. Or
Speaker:something like, well, maybe a savior complex, like, I would have done
Speaker:it this way. This is how we we as the church are better
Speaker:than. But those are the cheap seats. Yes. Those are the cheap
Speaker:seats because it means that we are being safe and not playing the hard
Speaker:game of seeing human to human in that other
Speaker:person Yeah. And and doing the hard work
Speaker:and getting away with it. Well, I mean, to your point, I
Speaker:did youth working specifically for two separate organizations, one
Speaker:in in Manitoba, one in Saskatchewan. And one of the things I
Speaker:found across the board was cynicism. Right?
Speaker:Just and I was an honored frontline worker with working
Speaker:in youth. Like, not sitting at the executive level, not sitting at even the director
Speaker:level. Actually, didn't want to work at the director level because I loved
Speaker:being in the mix. One of the the most cynical things I
Speaker:saw was a person would re was just the person opening up the
Speaker:file, opening up that person's file, reading why they were in
Speaker:the the program. Most specifically, you could think
Speaker:about someone who maybe was there because of violence, because something had happened,
Speaker:because they did something in school. And now you're watching
Speaker:you're watching staff members walk into that house, like, guarded.
Speaker:I think there's a difference between walking in with wisdom and walking
Speaker:in, like, well, let's see how this goes. I hope he doesn't. And day
Speaker:after day, when you really got to sit with these kids,
Speaker:you realize you know, I coined my own phrase, like, read beyond
Speaker:the file. Like, actually sit when you actually sit with some of these
Speaker:kids and you realize, oh, while I was reading their file,
Speaker:I wasn't seeing the the person in there. Now I'm sitting with this kid,
Speaker:and people are wondering, hey, Troy. How is it that you've had no, you
Speaker:know, incidents? And I'm like, k. Well, first of all,
Speaker:well, that's the Lord. But second of all is because I'm not
Speaker:trying to adjust to their presence according to what their file has told
Speaker:me. Because if someone were to open up our file, if someone were to
Speaker:look up all the things I've said, all the things I've done out of my
Speaker:humanity, you'd probably think the same thing. You know? I'm not saying I've
Speaker:attacked anybody, but what I'm saying is we all have a file on us that
Speaker:the lord knows about. And so if we were to really consider that for a
Speaker:moment, thank god that he doesn't look at us cynically. One of the things
Speaker:I I I think the church the church needs to be
Speaker:willing to start taking the same risks that we were asked in the book of
Speaker:Acts. When you read the book of Acts, when you see the original building of
Speaker:the church, it was a risk. The Jews and the
Speaker:Gentiles coming together under the common thread of
Speaker:we saw Jesus. Some of us walked with Jesus.
Speaker:We saw the resurrection. That commonality
Speaker:of not only seeing him come to the people
Speaker:of Israel, but walk among the Gentiles and then hang on a
Speaker:cross and then be resurrected, that was their commonality.
Speaker:That is so true because so often we can get the the real twenty
Speaker:twenty hindsight version of flanograph Jesus, and it just kinda plays
Speaker:out. We know how the story goes. But in the moment,
Speaker:the cynicism that people would I'm like, say what?
Speaker:You know, like, are you really for real putting your name to this claim? Are
Speaker:you really gonna proclaim these things? And yet if
Speaker:we're serving the same Jesus and Jesus is still active, god is still active
Speaker:in the everyday, he hasn't left the building. Well,
Speaker:that could be argued. How are we putting
Speaker:ourselves out there in those ways when Jesus in the flesh
Speaker:is not here? How are we manifesting those things in
Speaker:our communities, in our churches? Are we willing to dare
Speaker:and face the cynicism and do it anyway? Because I think it
Speaker:has to come from a hope way beyond what our our
Speaker:culture can provide and then the safety net because there is no
Speaker:safety net in culture. No. No. Each man for their
Speaker:own. It's it's it's dog eat dog in some ways with cynicism,
Speaker:but there's a hope. I I I a % agree with you. I when I
Speaker:look at scripture, I'm like, oh, there was a cynic among the 12. His
Speaker:name was Thomas. There was a cynic among the 12. His
Speaker:name was Thomas. Dare I say, you could even go far saying
Speaker:Peter walked in a measure of cynicism. Do I
Speaker:actually believe you are who you say you are? And do I
Speaker:actually believe you're going to do what you said you're going to do?
Speaker:Because after let's take Peter for for example. They've had
Speaker:the last supper. Jesus has explained to them what is going to happen.
Speaker:Peter says, surely not. It's like, no. This
Speaker:needs to happen. Okay. Garden Of Gethsemane happens
Speaker:again. Peter is still in posture of trying to protect Jesus,
Speaker:and Jesus has to correct him. Like, no. This needs to happen,
Speaker:which means that there was a measure of cynicism and doubt because for
Speaker:the disciples and this era of the gospel,
Speaker:they had seen different messiahs come. They had seen different people
Speaker:come and say, I'm the savior of the world. And they had been, you
Speaker:know, put in prison for it. They'd been silenced, not just by the Romans, but
Speaker:by their own people. And then you move on to Thomas. Thomas
Speaker:was a cynic right until the resurrection, but Jesus
Speaker:met him at his cynicism. He met him and said, put
Speaker:your finger where the holes in my hands are. I'll meet your
Speaker:cynicism with my mercy. And I think the church needs to do that as
Speaker:well. There are so many people that walk into our churches every single
Speaker:day. Take the deconstruction movement. I know that's a buzzword.
Speaker:But it comes from a place of, is god really who he says he is?
Speaker:And the reason they have a hard time seeing that is because our churches don't
Speaker:look like who he called us to be. And it's costly. I I
Speaker:think we'd be remiss to say, okay. We should address cynicism. We
Speaker:should look at the root cause. We should be vulnerable and allow us to
Speaker:see the in the other person. That is all good. But let's
Speaker:also realize this isn't just a a feel good. We should stop doing
Speaker:that. Like, I should stop eating that extra brownie that's on the
Speaker:counter. There's actual damage
Speaker:we might have the privilege not to see. Mhmm. But when it comes to
Speaker:vulnerable people that are wounded, that are very vulnerable, not by
Speaker:their choice, but just out of their their position, whether that's way high on a
Speaker:pedestal and they're exposed or way low and
Speaker:hidden in plain sight. Yeah. Those vulnerable people,
Speaker:there's a cost to our cynicism Yeah. That when we're in the
Speaker:the cheap seats with cynicism, there's a a cost
Speaker:that cost them compassion and
Speaker:remediated help interventions. It cost our
Speaker:society all kinds of things. I don't know. Like, where do
Speaker:you see the cost of it? Maybe even working with your youth,
Speaker:you saw the cost of cynicism when the church and
Speaker:other people had a hands off approach. Yeah. I
Speaker:mean, I'm the type of person that still sees and still
Speaker:believes god is doing miracles. And with
Speaker:us walking in this and I really say it. Like I said, cynicism,
Speaker:if you really break it down as a lack of faith in in
Speaker:God and and his word to be real, we
Speaker:wonder why we don't see the miraculous in the same capacity. Yeah. I think
Speaker:it's because we're not looking for it. Mhmm. We're actually not looking for
Speaker:it in the day to day. If
Speaker:me waking up today in and of itself, and this is
Speaker:not to minimize the miracles as people say, but me
Speaker:just waking up today is a miracle. Why? Because someone as
Speaker:healthy as me didn't. Mhmm. So the miracle
Speaker:of me resting my head at night, my body going into this
Speaker:REM state and operating by itself with
Speaker:unbeknownst to me, without my house burning down, without something hap some
Speaker:tragic that is a miracle in and of itself. Why? Because that
Speaker:happened to somebody else. I just got off a plane. Just the other
Speaker:day, someone else didn't. There's been planes crashing for the last
Speaker:two months. And for me to get on a plane and land,
Speaker:come home and not get in a car accident, it's a miracle in itself
Speaker:that there's clearly things being put in place,
Speaker:and the Lord is just the grace of the Lord is allowing me to see
Speaker:another day. And I find, like, we are
Speaker:missing out on the the beautiful, beautiful walk that
Speaker:we can have with the Lord because we're afraid to we're
Speaker:actually afraid to be let down. Mhmm. But it's
Speaker:because we don't take him at his word. This has kinda been a
Speaker:phrasing that has been, going through our church lately. Like,
Speaker:what would happen if you took God at his word, right, according to
Speaker:his word? What would the church look like if we actually believe
Speaker:he is the way maker, miracle worker, you know,
Speaker:all the songs that we love to sing, all the things that song. Did you
Speaker:know that, Troy? I didn't know that. My husband, and he sings that to
Speaker:me when I I do a lot of work, never stop never stop working.
Speaker:Slightly out of context, but you're speaking to my soul.
Speaker:But, you know, I I I find we're actually missing out
Speaker:Yeah. On seeing seeing a miracle in what can
Speaker:be the mundane. And I find that when a person starts
Speaker:appreciating the miracle in the mundane, our day to day stops
Speaker:feeling like such a trudge. Yeah. It feels like an opportunity for
Speaker:something special to happen at any moment.
Speaker:And the miracle that we see in front of us with the person in front
Speaker:of us of who they are, not necessarily their whole resume and
Speaker:the things they have or have not done. I I was talking
Speaker:with indigenous leader in government, this
Speaker:several years ago, and we were talking about, can we work with the church? There's
Speaker:cynicism on that side. And For sure. I deal with a lot of churches that
Speaker:are cynical that we can even be at the table with government, be at the
Speaker:table with reconciliation talks with with indigenous. There's a
Speaker:ton of cynicism if you're looking at that. But she turned to me, and we're
Speaker:having a really neat conversation over a cup of coffee. And she
Speaker:says, you know what, Wendy? This right here, this
Speaker:is reconciliation. There was this glimmer of hope that just got
Speaker:emerged because we saw the Amalgad Day even though we come from different world
Speaker:views, but we were coming together. And those are the miracles. I
Speaker:saw a miracle within her. I saw God in her, and we could've
Speaker:missed that Yeah. In the ordinary. But we
Speaker:have to see that as a miracle. You take this back a
Speaker:hundred years. You take this back sixty years for some of the people that have
Speaker:been living on reserves and in the indigenous community, that not
Speaker:only are you willing to sit with her or him, but they have that
Speaker:position in government. Like, that there that
Speaker:there even is a table. Yeah. Right? And this is
Speaker:one thing that I've been, you know, I've been really trying to work really, really
Speaker:trying to work through is, like, lord, help me not grow familiar
Speaker:with the things that I see every single day. I don't wanna grow familiar
Speaker:with my spouse. I don't wanna grow familiar with my kids calling
Speaker:me dad because there are so many dads who don't have a
Speaker:relationship with their kids, and now they're calling them by their first name. You know?
Speaker:Yeah. And it probably stings. And I don't wanna grow familiar
Speaker:with it just because it seems like the way it's supposed to be. Well
Speaker:Yeah. Just because that's the way it's supposed to be doesn't mean that it's going
Speaker:to be or that it is. Right? At any moment, the Lord could say,
Speaker:Troy, your time is up. Right? That's that's it. And
Speaker:I don't wanna be found familiar. I don't wanna be
Speaker:found with people being able to have a pulse on me as far as
Speaker:what is Troy hopeful for. I want people to know, man, Troy is
Speaker:always pursuing the greater in people, the greater in
Speaker:himself, trying to give people the the gospel, and and,
Speaker:honestly, just literally what our mandate is with with, with
Speaker:Apologetics Canada, just loving God and loving people. Really trying to get it keep the
Speaker:main thing the main thing. And I believe when a person
Speaker:has vision, when an organization has vision, that
Speaker:means no matter what is going on, I can actively fight
Speaker:cynicism when I have a foundation. Mhmm. When I look at this and I say,
Speaker:okay. But is this part of the vision, right, for Care Impact? Okay.
Speaker:This door got closed. This opportunity didn't happen. But what did we commit
Speaker:to doing? Okay. If I've committed to doing this and this is what
Speaker:the vision says, then that's actively gonna fight fight against
Speaker:cynicism and you know? Yeah. You're absolutely right
Speaker:because we've been in it ten years now, and we've seen many different
Speaker:versions of how we express ourselves. Our our mission statement is almost to the
Speaker:same words. But I can say now through trial and
Speaker:fire and innovation that right
Speaker:now, yes, there's maybe some setbacks or discouragement when you you
Speaker:face cynicism. It's just natural. Like, will this church
Speaker:really do they really mean it, or are they just infatuated with me being a
Speaker:risk taker? Yeah. But, honestly, I can smile at the
Speaker:face of cynicism now because I know there's something so much deeper.
Speaker:I can't wait to give you the hope for glory. There there is
Speaker:something. This is the hope, that we hold. It's not the only thing.
Speaker:We wanna work with you and in diversity, but we carry
Speaker:something, a mantle that god has given us that is hope
Speaker:filled outside of this world Yes. That I can't just
Speaker:wait for the right response to give me a a a different response.
Speaker:This is who we are. This is what we're called to. Yeah. And I
Speaker:feel like that we have lost often in our
Speaker:culture getting back to the the the Canadian culture, this is a broad statement because
Speaker:we we're so many different people and For sure. For sure. Perspectives.
Speaker:However, have we lost particular in the Canadian church,
Speaker:we lost our sense of wonder, our sense of mystery, or
Speaker:and apologetics often has had a a bad rap because we're like, we need to,
Speaker:like, put Jesus in a box. We need to know exactly our doctrinal statements rather
Speaker:than wondering. This generation, they need to ask those questions. They
Speaker:need to wonder. And I feel like an
Speaker:antidote to cynicism is wondering and
Speaker:leaning into the mysteries of God that, oh, there's so much more.
Speaker:I I believe it's either Ephesians four or Ephesians five. It's funny because I actually
Speaker:just preached a sermon on this. Ephesians five, it talks about
Speaker:one of the towards the end of the passage, it says, and pursue the
Speaker:the things that please God. And it's this converse like, you're seeing
Speaker:this whole interaction that Paul is talking about in living life set
Speaker:apart, living life in holiness. It says, and actually
Speaker:seek after what pleases God. Well, seeking
Speaker:requires curiosity. Mhmm. Right? And so exactly what
Speaker:you're saying, if we are no longer curious for the things of
Speaker:God and this is not a universalist statement of saying looking for God
Speaker:everywhere. No. I'm not saying I'm looking for God in a rock or in a
Speaker:speaker. No. But according to his word and his nature,
Speaker:I should be able to see God moving. And nature cries
Speaker:out. Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Right? If
Speaker:I'm curious for God, that means I can walk into a government
Speaker:building, and I could say, god, I pray that you open a
Speaker:door here so that we can fulfill the
Speaker:great commission, so that we can fulfill loving people as you would
Speaker:as you have called us to. So that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm gonna get
Speaker:to go and hold a worship service at parliament in the, you know, in the
Speaker:parliament offices. That doesn't mean that. But what it does mean
Speaker:is that maybe the person that I interact with is actually gonna see
Speaker:that how I practically want to present the
Speaker:gospel is by helping kids in the system.
Speaker:Practically pursuing the gospel is me trying to
Speaker:pour into the community and serve people, opening soup kitchens,
Speaker:doing whatever it takes to, you know, as it as it and take care of
Speaker:the widow, take care of the orphan. That's all in the Bible. So I don't
Speaker:need to actually plaster that verse everywhere. I actually get to live it out,
Speaker:and I get to pursue that. But I have to be looking for
Speaker:places, spaces, and people where god has
Speaker:made room for me and where god has made room ultimately for himself
Speaker:because we just so happen to be to get to be the vessels and the
Speaker:carriers, but it starts with curiosity. Yeah. And that
Speaker:right there is the cynicism extinguisher to
Speaker:any conversation that could be shut down. How often in government
Speaker:and in other, cross sections of society that
Speaker:we interact with and within churches and denominations, we
Speaker:shut down the conversation of curiosity because we're like,
Speaker:this isn't. And then they there there's this, like, it's a it's a
Speaker:hope killer. Yes. A vision, dyer,
Speaker:and and it really stifles community. Yeah. I mean, the
Speaker:word says my people perish for lack of vision. Yeah. Right? We we've
Speaker:allowed, actually and I was just thinking about this the other day.
Speaker:How does that saying go? Curiosity killed the cat. I grew up in the
Speaker:Prairies. Curiosity actually fed the cat.
Speaker:Like, cure that cat like, I go to my my in law's farm.
Speaker:These cats are getting in the barn. They're looking all over the place. They're sneaking
Speaker:in the place. Why? Because there's a hunger, and they're actually trying to find
Speaker:food. So curiosity is actually gonna feed the cat.
Speaker:Right? It's gonna feed the cat, and then you have the amount of stories of
Speaker:people that have found a stray cat, and they've taken them into a
Speaker:home. Like, hey. I found this stray cat. Now I'm gonna give him a home.
Speaker:Now I'm gonna give him bedding. Now I'm gonna give him food. And I know
Speaker:this is kind of, like, a fun metaphor, but it's also
Speaker:individuals. How many people have walked into our church is purely out
Speaker:of curiosity. We've had people come to our church just because they heard the
Speaker:music. And in that curiosity, they walked in, and they found
Speaker:people that looked like them. They found a community that looked
Speaker:vibrant. They found a community that see seemed very loving and very
Speaker:welcoming. Next thing you know, that person now serving in our community
Speaker:has given their life to the lord and is not turning back.
Speaker:Curiosity fed them. Yeah. I love that. And
Speaker:that's actually one of our taglines or our tagline, Johan.
Speaker:Let's get curious. Yeah. Or stay curious. Right? Stay
Speaker:curious. So, I mean, we can probably end each podcast with saying,
Speaker:don't be cynical, and they're kinda synonymous, aren't they? Yeah.
Speaker:Right. And what we're really talking about is lack of connection
Speaker:too. Yes. So when you know an individual and that's why we think stories are
Speaker:so important because when you Crucial. Heard someone's story, when you've got to know them
Speaker:a little bit better, it's hard to be cynical about it because
Speaker:you you've heard their experience. It's hard to be cynical from an experience.
Speaker:Yeah. That's right. That's right. The the thing I I would add with
Speaker:experience is even with that experience is just the
Speaker:the door opening. Right? It sometimes we also
Speaker:stop at experience. Sometimes you'll find this in in the,
Speaker:you know, you not just the apologetics world, but then, like, the the Christian
Speaker:world at large where this is your experience,
Speaker:but this is my intellect. Well, god didn't ask you to throw away
Speaker:experience, but he also didn't ask you to throw away intellect. Right? He challenged
Speaker:he challenged both the the like, take the Pharisees, for example.
Speaker:He challenged their intellect with the living experience right
Speaker:in front of them. Right? Today, this has been fulfilled in your
Speaker:hearing. Yes. So you're hearing me release this word, this
Speaker:gospel, this message as he was I believe he was quoting,
Speaker:the prophet Isaiah at the time. He was reading that scroll. Today, this has been
Speaker:fulfilled in your hearing. And they're like, wait. What what does he
Speaker:mean? Right? You have the intellect. I'm trying to give you an
Speaker:experience with me. And then as far as the disciples, they got
Speaker:an experience with him. Paul had an experience, and
Speaker:then he sent them to get educated. There was an equipping that came.
Speaker:That's why he gave the Holy Spirit so that we could be equipped from
Speaker:the experience. And so they walk hand in hand. Oh, I
Speaker:you're you're speaking my my love language here right now because they
Speaker:do need to come together even though even in Christian ministry and church,
Speaker:yes, we love God, but we don't have to leave our our brains at the
Speaker:door. We also don't wanna be brains on a stick. Could they not speak to
Speaker:each other? Yes. Because I feel like there's such an enriching,
Speaker:amount of conversation that can happen. And
Speaker:the amount of times where spiritual bypassing because of just
Speaker:experience, happens because we just talk around it,
Speaker:and rather than reasoning and looking at objective
Speaker:truth. And then on the other hand, we have
Speaker:just the academics and the the the reasoning of it, and
Speaker:we haven't brought it into the everyday. Imagine
Speaker:if we could put those things together. And that's what I see you doing at
Speaker:AP and on your podcast. I'm I'm I'm a a big fan of of your
Speaker:episodes, and you're able to to merge those things together
Speaker:quite intentionally, I imagine. Yeah. And and that's one of the things
Speaker:I love about our team. Right? We have a super diverse team
Speaker:with varying levels of biblical education, but
Speaker:also experience. Right? I come from the the arts
Speaker:world, and and I would never go like, none of us ultimately,
Speaker:none of us would really go and say, hey. I'm an apologist. You
Speaker:know? They can tell us that, hey. You guys are apologist and this sort of
Speaker:thing. It's not us trying to deny what we do or the field that we're
Speaker:in. It's just that based on what we are passionate
Speaker:about, we fall into said camp. But as far
Speaker:as for me, I see apologetics through the art world in a
Speaker:way that, say, Wes doesn't. But Wes sees it through biblical
Speaker:scholarship in a way that I don't. And so when we go and have a
Speaker:conversation about art in the gospel, we come together
Speaker:like this. Right? We we're able to have a conversation based off of
Speaker:experience and education, and we're constantly learning from
Speaker:each other. And, like, I get I tell people all the time,
Speaker:sometimes on the podcast when I'm hosting and you hear me go
Speaker:silent, it's not because I don't have anything to say. It's because I get
Speaker:the unique opportunity to sit under someone who's more
Speaker:educated about a specific topic. Where I may have experience,
Speaker:I never would have had the framework. I never would have had the
Speaker:the language per se, nor would I may have had the historical background
Speaker:of where my presuppositions might have come from. My ideologies
Speaker:might have come from in the way I'm interpreting scripture. And so when I have
Speaker:an Andy or Wes or Steve talking about transhumanism and all
Speaker:this sort of stuff, I'm like, oh, I didn't know that that's what that I
Speaker:didn't know that's what we would call that. But thank
Speaker:you. Now I can properly exist in this space a little bit more.
Speaker:Like, I don't wanna necessarily say comfortably because that's not the term I'm looking for.
Speaker:Yeah. But I can exist in this space with a better grounding
Speaker:for what not just what I believe, but what they believe. Yeah. And
Speaker:the cheap seats in that hosting situation would be to be
Speaker:cynical Yes. About what they have. Is it really does it line up with
Speaker:my experience rather than being curious and saying, how can I learn from
Speaker:them what they're bringing to this conversation and that
Speaker:you validly have something to offer as well into the
Speaker:conversation, but it's that curiosity? I know we have to to end
Speaker:this conversation, unfortunately. We'd love to have you back sometime.
Speaker:Absolutely. But I I would love to, just ask you, what is
Speaker:a challenge that you might wanna give our listeners on the topic of
Speaker:cynicism and what we've been talking about? Is there a challenge that we can put
Speaker:out there for our listeners to consider? I don't
Speaker:wanna diminish it to just don't be a cynic. Right.
Speaker:Because it's like, okay. Well, where do where do I start? I
Speaker:would say, have have a conversation with someone
Speaker:without inserting your own opinion first.
Speaker:Mhmm. Ask a question and then and
Speaker:actually just ask it. Like, hey. Why do you like
Speaker:red? This is a prime example. Why do you like red? Don't follow-up with,
Speaker:because I see that you wear red a lot, and I heard that when people
Speaker:wear red, x y z happens or x y z is what they believe.
Speaker:Yeah. You've now inserted your own cynicism into the conversation. Yeah.
Speaker:Now this person's response is not just genuinely telling you why they
Speaker:like red. They feel like now they have to defend themselves and
Speaker:diffuse your Right. Cynicism. We we've
Speaker:got to stop projecting our cynicism on people and forcing people to have
Speaker:to fight off that in order to have a conversation. So I would say, have
Speaker:a conversation with someone. And I know people can already think of someone
Speaker:you may disagree with or someone whose point of view you're
Speaker:like, I don't know how I feel about it. But ask them the question,
Speaker:hey. Why do you believe stay away from politics because it's a
Speaker:little fresh right now. It is a little fresh. As a as a starter,
Speaker:exercise. Yeah. But just genuinely ask them
Speaker:a question that you you wanna know the answer to and
Speaker:just listen. And ask I would say be
Speaker:an active listener in it, but do not insert
Speaker:your opinion into it unless they ask you for your opinion.
Speaker:Because I guarantee you're gonna learn you're gonna learn two things. You're gonna
Speaker:learn one, depending on how the conversation goes, obviously. But you could
Speaker:learn, one, what they believe about that thing. Two, how they
Speaker:came to believe about that thing. And then the beautiful bonus is
Speaker:now that they've asked they've answered your question, them asking you, how do you feel
Speaker:about how I see that thing? Because now you've what you've
Speaker:done is you've organically created a relationship. And like we said,
Speaker:relationship Johan, you were saying this relationship actually
Speaker:helps diffuse, cynicism. Because now
Speaker:it's like that phrase, now I got skin in the game. Now I've actually released
Speaker:a part of my heart to you. And if you're actually about to just go
Speaker:stomp on that, that says more about you than it does about them. And that'll
Speaker:show you a lot about who you are. That's amazing. Hey. Before we end this
Speaker:episode, you wanna tell our audience where they can find you, where they can
Speaker:connect with some of your content online? Yeah.
Speaker:So me, specifically, you can follow me.
Speaker:Kinda my my more ministerial journey is through prairie boy
Speaker:prairie boy troy just on Instagram. If you wanna follow the music,
Speaker:it's just scribe underscore music or scribe music on
Speaker:any platform. For my organization, Apologetics Canada,
Speaker:our Instagram tag is just Apologetics Canada.
Speaker:Nowadays, it we we feel like we're the prize pony, so it's not hard
Speaker:to find us. So you can just type in Apologetics Canada. We
Speaker:have a host of resources on there as well as, like, the the AC
Speaker:podcast. We put out weekly episodes, and, that
Speaker:that's really the the simplest way. Awesome. I'll make sure I have all those links
Speaker:in the show notes for our listeners if you wanna it.
Speaker:Care lingo. Alright. We are in our Care lingo segment.
Speaker:I think it it's appropriate to use the term apologetics
Speaker:today. Hey, Wendy? Oh, that sounds like the perfect word. Oh, we could have
Speaker:fun with this. K. Well, I'm supposed to give the wrong definition for this.
Speaker:So if I was someone first hearing this word, this is kind of what
Speaker:came to my mind. If I heard someone say they're into
Speaker:apologetics, I would think that they're in some sort of weird
Speaker:exercising class that mixes exercising
Speaker:and apologies, you know, kind of like a quasi Canadian
Speaker:exercise thing that we do in the church maybe
Speaker:where we get to repent while exercising. We apologize for
Speaker:things for our misdeeds and our sins. But, you know, mixing
Speaker:exercising and apologies together. Yeah. I see. I
Speaker:was gonna piggyback off of that similar vein. I was thinking
Speaker:of I know it's a course. It's a it's an academic thing. So I was
Speaker:thinking of something that I would register for in Canada, of course,
Speaker:to learn how to apologize well. And we we do like
Speaker:to say sorry, but maybe to expand our vocabulary, take an
Speaker:apologetics course. You'll get really good at saying sorry as a
Speaker:Canadian. And you're gonna get a good workout, apparently. So And a good workout.
Speaker:So Troy, you're the expert here. What does apologetics
Speaker:actually mean? Okay. So apologetics comes from the Greek
Speaker:word apologia, which means to defend or
Speaker:in defense of. And where we kinda get
Speaker:the apologist creed is out of first Peter three fifteen where
Speaker:it says, always be ready to give an answer to anyone who may ask you
Speaker:the reason for the hope that is within you. And this is the caveat,
Speaker:do so with gentleness and respect. So apologetics
Speaker:and and it's funny because I thought, honestly, the same thing when I first came
Speaker:into this world. I was like, okay. What am I what am I saying sorry
Speaker:for? The church is sorry for x y z or whatever. But
Speaker:yeah. So that's that's apologetics. And one of the cool things
Speaker:about it is that it's not just one topic. I thought that
Speaker:apologetics was just a bunch of guys in blazers and brown loafers
Speaker:arguing over It used to be. It used to it used to be. When I
Speaker:was in seminary, it used to be. So that's that's what I thought it
Speaker:was, and then I showed up and kinda blew that all apart. Then you put
Speaker:it into rap form. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And so apologetics
Speaker:covers a wide range of topics and but it's really
Speaker:defending the various aspects of the Christian belief and
Speaker:faith according to scripture, obviously. And how appropriate because
Speaker:we were just talking about the hope and having a reason for hope, apologetics.
Speaker:You would hardly see it in the same sentence as cynicism, but
Speaker:it's it's giving reason to the hope that we have. Yeah. And
Speaker:so I encourage all our listeners to check out, Apologetics
Speaker:Canada. And thank you so much, Troy. Yep. Thank you, guys.
Speaker:Thank you for joining us on Journey with Care. To get more information on
Speaker:weekly episodes, upcoming opportunities, or to connect with our
Speaker:community, visit journeywithcare.ca, or find Care Impact
Speaker:on Facebook and Instagram, or just check the show notes for these
Speaker:links and all the links related to this episode. Share your thoughts,
Speaker:leave us a message, and be part of a network of individuals journeying in
Speaker:faith and purpose. Together, let's discover how we can make a
Speaker:meaningful impact.
