Episode 5

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Published on:

14th Mar 2025

Sheltered by Similarity | How to Tell if You're in a Bubble with Shannon and David Steeves



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Description

Episode 5 in our Cost of Indifference Series

Could the comfort found in like-minded communities actually be what's holding us back?

In today's conversation on Journey With Care, hosts Johan Heinrichs and Wendi Park are joined by Shannon and David Steeves to explore the potential pitfalls of echo chambers in faith communities. Johan reflects on his past experiences within a close church group that, while fostering belonging, also inadvertently created a limiting bubble. Shannon and David bring their perspectives as a couple from diverse cultural backgrounds, sharing insights from their marriage and personal journeys. They discuss how embracing diverse perspectives can foster deeper empathy and richer connections in church communities.

Time Stamps

[06:15] Cultural Journey from Istanbul to Canada

[10:09] Adjusting to Life in Canada

[12:39] Understanding Reactions and Sensitivities

[17:09] Church Leadership and Cultural Impact

[20:40] Embracing Diversity Requires Intentionality

[23:01] Navigating Power Dynamics in Church

[30:14] Proximity and Understanding Matter

[32:52] The Cost of Indifference

[35:21] Overcoming Main Character Syndrome

[36:30] Care Lingo: Microagressions

Guest Links

Instagram:

@davidandrewsteeves

@shannonleesteeves

Other Links

Join The CareImpact Podcast Group on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1PgzJWfkq9/

Reach out to us! https://careimpact.ca/podcast

Email: podcast@careimpact.ca

About the CarePortal: careimpact.ca/careportal

DONATE! Help connect and equip more churches across Canada to effectively journey well in community with the most vulnerable: careimpact.ca/donate

Transcript
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Like, we have to adapt. Like, there's not just

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one specific way to serve people. Yeah. There's

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not just one specific way to decide on

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people. I think when you're you're doing that, you're limiting

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yourself. It's so important to meet people where

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they're at. Yeah. The way we do that is is is just relationships.

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This is Journey with Care, a podcast by Care Impact where curious

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Canadians find inspiration to love others well through real life

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stories and honest conversations.

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What if the very comfort we find in like minded communities

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is also what blinds us to the full richness of faith and

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understanding? This question struck me deeply as I

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considered my own journey. How often have we mistaken comfort

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for growth only to realize that embracing diversity and faith in

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life enriches our own walk with Jesus and broadens our horizons?

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I was part of a vibrant church community that felt unstoppable.

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We were full of passion diving to the teachings of speakers and

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influences within our church expression. After Sunday services, we'd go

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to a restaurant. We'd sit for hours, dissecting sermons, creating our

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own teaching sessions, and bouncing ideas off one another back and forth.

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It was energizing and exciting. We thought we were building

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something unshakable, totally different from anyone else, a

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foundation of truth and purpose. Reflecting now,

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I see both the strength and limitations of that time. That community

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had provided us with certainty and a strong sense of belonging, and

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we pursued our faith with undeniable passion. However,

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we were also inadvertently building a bubble, one that was comfortable,

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reassuring, but ultimately restrictive. Over time, it became

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clear that this bubble was not just keeping us from growing, it was also

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keeping others out. My perspective began to shift when I

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realized that we weren't as special or unique as I had once felt.

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This realization came not from a place of disillusionment, but from an

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understanding that there was a richness and diversity that we were missing.

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I started to listen more to stories and experiences from outside our

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bubble. Each story was a revelation, showing me that different

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church experiences and walks with Jesus were not wrong, but

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essential. I needed these diverse perspectives to grow,

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not just intellectually, but in my relationship with Jesus.

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Now the bubble didn't burst all at once. It deflated slowly

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with each new conversation, every story that challenged my assumptions

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about what it meant to follow Christ. I began to rebuild,

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not just what I believe, but how I approach people. This wasn't

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about abandoning the passion of my early communities, but

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about enriching that passion with the voices of others who'd walk

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different paths. Looking back, I cherish the passion and purpose of that

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early community, but I also embrace the lessons learned from stepping

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outside that comfort zone. Today, we explore how echo

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chambers limit empathy and how embracing diverse perspectives

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leads to deeper, richer connections. Joining us

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today are Shannon and David Steeves, newlyweds from diverse

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cultural backgrounds demonstrating the power of unity in diversity.

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Shannon serves as the regional manager at Care Impact here in Winnipeg,

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facilitating deep conversations between churches and communities.

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David is the next generation pastor at Rose Church here in Winnipeg,

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nurturing young people's faith across diverse cultures.

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Together, they'll how diverse experiences can enrich faith and

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fellowship, also bringing in some of their marriage experience. We're excited

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to learn from their journey today. But, Wendy, I'm gonna hand it over to you

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now to get our conversation started. Alright. David and Shannon,

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so good to have you here. But before we dive in, I just wanna ask

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you kind of a random crazy question, but if you could instantly pick

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up a new skill or hobby without practicing, what would it

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be? Oh. Oh, I know mine.

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I I'm a grandma at heart, so I think mine

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would have to be, like, knitting or crocheting, something where I can just, like,

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sit and just Okay. Chat with the ladies, you know?

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I think carpentry. Oh. Wow. Jesus

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was a carpenter. Okay. I just wanna walk in his footsteps. Right.

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Right. No. But I I mean, imagine just being able to

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build a house. Mhmm. Just boom. You know? Yeah. What what

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would you build? A house and a barn and

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a garage. Oh my gosh. So we're gonna have a farm?

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Something like that. That could be fun. Well, I met so I did my internship

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in Tallahassee, Florida. Right? And I stayed with this

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couple, and this man showed me this

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barn that he built. Oh my gosh. And I'm like, we can do

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that. Some of us, humans,

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could go out and just build barns. Yeah. Well, David,

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it sounds like we wanna be neighbors with you and

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Shannon because I don't I don't have any carpentry skills in

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our in our family, and we could sure use some some instant skills like

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that. The thing with barns

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is Yeah. Anything that lives in a barn, they all end up smelling the same,

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and it's pretty bad, which brings us into, our

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conversation about Good segue. Good segue. Being in

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an echo chamber or a bubble. When do you wanna kick us

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off with, our conversation here? That's true. Yeah. In our series, we

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we are looking at the cost of indifference, and one of the things we're looking

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at is essentially echo chambers and

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and being internal and just listening to

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similar voices and maybe not having as

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much diversity into our conversations, into our

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thought life, that may challenge us, and it's easier

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to stay within. Now just in

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obvious form, you have to tell us a little bit. You don't look

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alike, and you have worked through some of this reason

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we've asked you into this story. Tell me a bit of your journeys

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into thinking outside the box, going outside

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your barn, so to speak in life. That was great.

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Yeah. So I I was born in

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Istanbul, Turkey. So that throws a little bit of spice

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into all of this. But, born

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to a Ethiopian mother, Nigerian dad,

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lived six years there. Me and my mom came here to Canada.

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My mom was, like, culturally, just

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Africans just in general, especially coming into a new

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country, they're trying to find folks that look like

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them, speak like them, cook like them, dress like them.

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But actually, my mom was really just,

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she was okay with not being familiar

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even since Istanbul and going to,

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a church that was predominantly, you know, Europeans and,

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you know, Middle Eastern folks. And so coming here, she

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didn't, like, find an Ethiopian church right away. We were actually connected

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with this this other church that was predominantly had

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a lot of Caucasian Canadians, and, you know, and so,

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like, right away, like, my mom was like, hey, be proud of

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your culture, the color of your skin, but,

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like, we didn't chase familiarity. And so that kinda

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just, like, I was always kinda, like,

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making friends with other folks that look different.

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And, you know, even going to school

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outside of Canada and going to The

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US and, you know, that was a part of just that journey and that

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upbringing. So you were raised global boy,

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and I'm curious. And and it's really neat to hear how your mom

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instilled that and gave you permission to be yourself, but

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also you were exposed from an early age to so many cultures.

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And then coming to Canada, which is, like, maybe your fourth culture

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kid kind of a thing, it's not your first, second, or third. Was

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there a time as you were growing up here in Canada where

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you had to discover your own identity,

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understand your own Imago Dei ness in your own ethnicity in

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Canada makes sense? What was that like? Yeah.

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So my two aunties

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came when I was around eight years old. So I grew up with my

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mom, in Turkey, Six Years, came here for two,

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three years. It was just me and my mom. Then my

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two aunties came, and so it was

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three Ethiopian women, you know what I'm saying, who

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grew up in, there was like barely any English being

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spoken in our home, and

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so, like, really learning the culture Mhmm.

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Helped me learn who I was, and in

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return, I became proud of that. And you really got boot

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camp on how to treat women, didn't you? And no wonder you're happily married. Shannon,

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I'd love to hear a bit of your story, happily married. Shannon, I'd love to

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hear a bit of your story because you also you were actually newer to Canada

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than your husband. Tell us a little bit. And and now with all the

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politics, we're not gonna go there. But at the same time, you guys are

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a a living miracle here. Go go share us a little bit of hope

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here. Yeah. Well, my journey here is not quite as

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interesting. But I was born and raised in

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Southeast Minnesota. And as I thought about this conversation, I was

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like, man, I really did spend a lot of time with

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people who look just like me. And

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and yeah. So just, like, thinking back, man, since I was a kid,

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that that definitely shaped my worldview. It

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shaped just my kind of initial impressions of

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people and having to kinda examine that as I've gotten older.

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And then moved to North Dakota for college, and that's where

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we met. And then I spent a little bit of time in Tennessee.

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So going down south, that was a different vibe. And

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then, yeah, just in the last, like, nine months or

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so, moved to Canada to marry him.

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And, yeah, that has probably been, like, the

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biggest just pushing me out of my comfort zone moving

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here. It's like there's so many similarities, but then

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the things that are different, you're like, oh, yeah. That is different.

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Especially when it comes to faith and politics

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and even the kind of the presence and the influence of

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churches in Canada, feeling a lot of that difference and learning

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about that has been a learning curve for sure.

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So now you're married. Congratulations. You're a

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few months into this marriage. What are some of the surprises,

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even through your dating and new married life? Maybe

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it's too much on the hot seat here, but share share as much as you'd

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like. Because I know, like, I'm in a cross cultural marriage as

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well. Yeah. My husband came here from another country. And so there's some things

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that we assume are very similar because we all speak English. Right. But what are

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the some of the things, the nuances that you're realizing, oh, I just

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thought this is the way it is in in living up my faith

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and in my day to day that when you're

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with each other, that you're realizing having to

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reconsider your assumptions. Yeah. I think

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one thing maybe I feel like communication style

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sometimes. Mhmm. I grew up

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where it was like communication styles,

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just like the lingo and, like, the casualness,

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even the the banter type jargon

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Yeah. Kind of bringing that here. Like, are we

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good? Are we are we mad? Are we happy? Right. Like, I often thought he

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was mad at me Yeah. And he wasn't. Yeah. This is like is this

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a joyful conversation? Is this and so, like, we had to learn,

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like, I I honestly was like, okay. I need to

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pivot and be like, hey. This

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is what I've learned. Mhmm. This is this comes from me just,

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like, just in my circles and being used to that. Yeah. But

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knowing that, you know, I wanna love you the best that I can. Mhmm.

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Communicate in a way that's, like Right. You know, what

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I'm relaying the message that I want to you to know.

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Mhmm. You know what I'm saying? And vice versa. And vice versa. Yeah. Absolutely.

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Because as we're, like, in the moment realizing,

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oh, this is, like, I'm feeling a type of way because of how you

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communicated, or what how your tone was, or whatever it might be. Then,

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like, on the flip side, there's a level of, like, me

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acknowledging my own sensitivities and acknowledging, you know,

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obviously so much of how we act is based on what we saw growing up

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or what was modeled for us. Mhmm. And so just because

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it's different, doesn't mean it's bad. It's bad. And that Weird. Or

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weird or wrong. Yeah. And that yeah. I'd say

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that's a a huge thing that we have we've learned Yeah.

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Especially in the beginning. For sure. Yeah. Sometimes I think

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about, like, hospitality wise. Like, we

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both are very people people,

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and we love hosting. But I think Ethiopian hospitality is,

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like, another level. Mhmm. I don't know. Is this landing with you? Like, do you

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think that that's kind of something Yeah. We've learned I think

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there is a specific

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style Mhmm. In hosting people in

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Ethiopian households. It's like and it could be perceived

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as not rude. Because what I'm

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thinking of is, like yeah. Yeah. What I'm more Bring the real, really Yeah.

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Tools. Like, something as simple as and this might not be related

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really to, like, culture. But I think of a simple example. A couple weeks ago,

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we were hosting people, and I, like, didn't really care about

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what dish we used to put some food in. Mhmm. And you're like, no.

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That's kinda like it was like a Mhmm. A mixing bowl, you

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know? And he's like, no. Let's use, like, a actual Yeah. Decent looking

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bowl. And I'm like, I don't really care. But for you and for your

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like, that culture growing up, it's like, no. We're gonna give the highest level

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of service and and care. Really. Pulled out the the like, my

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auntie, when I was home, she had four or five

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bowls Yeah. That were in the top left right corner in the

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back of Right. A compartment that you didn't know existed

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Yeah. Until guests came. Right. And I'm like, we can just use the

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Pyrex. Like, it's Yeah. We're

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realizing, like, I don't know. Of things like that. Yeah. Then, again, it's not bad.

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It's just different. Well, I love what I'm hearing here. Even you're

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just doing it live right in front of me. I'm seeing echo

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chambers, assumptions, our baselines are are colliding in

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each other and not in a way that one is right or one is wrong.

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There's a mutuality about this conversation you're you're so vulnerably sharing

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with me. And you're you're right, David and Shannon. I I can

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identify it. I have Ethiopian relatives. My sister, she brings it next

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level. When I'm I'm part of Ethiopian weddings and

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just hospitality, it's just like, I learned so much from

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it. I'm curious through this, even just

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through your marriage, and and you've had many different cultural experiences moving

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to Canada and everything for both of you. How has that enriched? How

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has that made you a better person? How has that made you more

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faithful to Christ and refined you

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as you've had these collisions? And not being wrong or right, but how

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has that impacted your growth? It has really

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revealed to me, especially we just did a marriage conference at our

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church, and so this is really on my mind there too. But it

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really revealed to me how selfish we are as

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people that we really make

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decisions in our best interest. Mhmm.

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And it really takes a lot of effort to kinda

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humble ourselves and be like, oh, okay. My way isn't

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necessarily the right way. Mhmm. Or while I believe it is true,

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other people believe differently. Mhmm. And there can be space for me to

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acknowledge that. I just think about, you know, we're only six, seven

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months into this. But now I get why people always

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said in marriage, like, it really reveals that part of you

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that's, like, we wanna do what we wanna do. Mhmm. And

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Yeah. I get now how, like, marriage is such this, like, picture

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of process, I guess, of sanctification. It's like, okay,

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every day, like, I'm laying myself down Yeah. And

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putting you ahead of my own needs and vice

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versa, like that mutual submission. And it doesn't

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happen, like, naturally. I guess that's what you like, I have to

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think about is my default setting is not to, like,

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put your needs first. Mhmm. I wish it were, and I want it to be.

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And that's not different from what we are called to as a church to lay

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down our lives for each other. Right? And so, David, you are

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a pastor in a church. Shannon, you are on our team doing amazing

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things in in the city of Winnipeg with the care portal, working with

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churches. Now let's put that into a context of leadership in

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churches. Leaders that are one culture, how would that

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impact how we're cared for, how we provide a hospitality?

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We're friendly or we love this because it comes out of one lens. It's not

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necessarily wrong. It's not a morality issue. Let's

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talk to that. What does it look like for us

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to have one singular cultural lens through our

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leadership? I think we like, we have to adapt. Like,

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there's not just one specific way to

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serve people. Yeah. There's not just one specific way

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to disciple people. I think when you're you're

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doing that, you're limiting yourself. It's so important to

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meet people where they're at. Yeah. The way we do that is is

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is just relationships. Mhmm. Making sure that

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within the church, we're going out of our our

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circles and building relationships with people in the

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church that don't fit that, you

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know, one Yeah. Like, Canadian like, hey. You know, this

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one. Yeah. But it's like, man, have relationships, learn,

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and then use that knowledge into, you know,

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creating systems and how to create certain conversations and

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how to ultimately disciple Mhmm.

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A multitude of people. And and so I think it's it's very

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important, I think, for for leadership to have

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relationship. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I think as as

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you're talking, I'm thinking about, like, some of the conversations I've had with church

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leaders is, like, I think a lot of it starts with vision.

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Right. It's, like, coming before the Lord and asking him, okay, what's your

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vision Right. For this community, for this church?

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And then putting those key people in those places

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to help carry that out. Like, if our vision is to reach the

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city city of Winnipeg, like, okay, that's our vision. How are we

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gonna accomplish this? Like, we can't have just one

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singular demographic in all the roles. Right. All the roles. Yeah.

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Like, because they can't necessarily speak or relate the same way

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to be all things to all people. You know? Like, thank God that we're

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not because that would be too much. But I think you have to

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acknowledge that and then put in the, you know, that work, that effort

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to look for those people that God wants to bring in. I don't know. Does

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that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It it does definitely ultimately

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start with vision. Mhmm. Yeah. I

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think humans are just we're just we're prone

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to chasing comfortability Yeah. Yeah. That

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makes its way in the church. And so it's Yeah. You're always,

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like, you're breaking against that. Like, Christianity in itself

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walking with Christ is going against the grain, and so Mhmm. That has

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to be a part of leadership in church. Be

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uncomfortable. Yeah. Right? Have those conversations

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with people. Build those relationships. Obviously, ultimately, go to God

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Mhmm. For that vision. Mhmm. But, like, people need to be reached,

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and so that doesn't just stop with, English

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speaking folks. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's yeah.

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Yeah. No. There's a lot of good things that, you've touched upon

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and having that vision for something more than

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recreating myself in others. Is it we're not looking for the image

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of me in others and how they should love it love, to

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worship like me or or act like me, but looking at who

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is god in the other person. But then you you touched

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on something else that I'd like to to put a finger on is

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that it takes intentionality. There's some effort involved, and I

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wonder if that is one of the barriers that prevents us be from

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embracing diversity more. I talk with leaders, like, my family is

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very diverse. I'm the only white girl around the table, but people say, oh,

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that's diverse. Well, not really if we're not sharing that

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power. Not really if we're not honoring

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people's culture and what they bring, and and it's not even just like, oh,

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you're Ethiopian, so you must be like so and so. You have

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a unique story that came from Istanbul, and so each person

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comes with similar threads and fabric,

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but unique but it takes intentionality. And

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do you think that we have

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become indifferent possibly simply because it's

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just easier to do it our way

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than embrace potential rifts or

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storming things out and figuring things out together? I

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think before you even asked that question, I was, like, thinking about how, you know,

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all of what we're saying is well and good. But, like, in practice,

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it can be messy. Oh, so messy. And so I think that, like, really gets

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to your point is, like, yeah. It really is a lot

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easier to exist within, you

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know, our familiar culture, our familiar demographic, our familiar

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upbringing. Mhmm. And it's a lot harder

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to kind of, like, reach across the table and be

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like, okay. Like, what's your story? Like, I I wanna learn from you.

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Yeah. And then maybe if it's, like, something that's hard to hear, it's like,

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okay. Yeah. You know, we have to grow in that, emotional

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maturity, I think, to to be willing to listen.

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Totally. And I this like, I say that from a place of, like, ongoing learning.

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Yeah. Yeah. Not that I've arrived because it is

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ongoing. Yeah. Totally. Well and it takes the

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pressure off. When you posture it that way, it takes the pressure off of having

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to these are the steps to being diverse. These are the steps

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to not being insular in your thinking. It really requires

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just leaning in and listening and being responsive to the

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holy spirit, needing God to give us revelation, needing

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God to give us inspiration on how do we love each other

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well and what does it mean to follow you in this? It's

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not how to do church so that we're not in an echo

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chamber. It's what does it mean to be faithful and

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to worship together with shared power.

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Let's talk on power dynamics within

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church, within a diverse setting. How do you work

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through those things? It could be ethnic

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diversity or gender or things like that. Not I'm not

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talking about that we should have a power struggle, but I'm

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sure you've experienced times where there is a power

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dynamic that people don't even realize they have. They hold the assumed

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power. Yeah. Tell me a little bit of those experiences when you

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haven't necessarily been that person. What does it feel like

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to not be that person with the assumed

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Yeah. Coming in to ministry

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mean being young. Mhmm. You know, the youngest

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like a young black boy, and, you know, had the opportunity

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and the privilege to oversee a team

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that had predominantly a lot of older folks.

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Right? So there's older people. You know, they're

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established. They've got families. Mhmm. And I'm like, okay.

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How do I delegate? You know? Yeah. So it's like I'm working

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through leadership, but then also, like,

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when we're walking into a meeting, how do I hey. I'm

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leading this meeting. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, the words I'm

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saying is important. This agenda is so I'm working through, like,

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hey, David. Like, you have that confidence. Mhmm. You

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know, you're here on purpose. And so I think that's, like, a a

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continued thing for sure. Yeah. I would say so.

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Really more, like, internally, have to make sure that

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I'm walking in confidently, but knowing the truth

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of God. Mhmm. And but, yeah, there's certain moments

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that's, like, David's the baby, you know. And so

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it's it's it's the youngest the youngest in the office.

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And so it's like but I think I've made sure

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that I'm quick to listen, but also I'm afraid to

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speak confidently Mhmm. As well. I have

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a a totally candid question, and feel free to answer how you like it.

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Not necessarily specific in today's moment, but do you ever feel

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you said that the young black boy Yeah. In the room. Do you

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ever feel in order to be heard, you have to act

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more white? You know, feel,

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yes. Is that truth? No. But it's

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funny, because, like, when you say

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white in my head okay. So let me

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go back to a in 2019, I was playing football in

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BC. I was getting interviewed. It was like a

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preseason interview. It was really exciting. And so this reporter was

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giving me questions and, you know, I was answering. And he's

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like, man, you're really, like you know how to

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articulate. And I was like No. I don't I

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don't think you know how that sounded. Right? So I think, like,

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you know, when folks say, like, more white, I

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think it's, like, being more articulate and more,

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you know, profound or more you know what I'm saying? And

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so I'm, like, when in my own circles, like, bro,

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you sound you sound all white. I'm like, bro, that's not

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being white. That's just being able to speak. Right?

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Having diction. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, I

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know when I walk into a room

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knowing what I'm about to say,

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I've downloaded this information. I've taken the time to research.

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Like, I know what I'm saying, and I know how to articulate my thoughts and

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vision. I know I'll be heard. Yeah. No. I think that that's

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so good. And there in in in those

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friction moments, if you call it that, are education

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moments that people need to lean in and

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realize we need to take people at face value. But

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I know different friends of mine of different ethnicities

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will say sometimes their struggle in their workplace

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or in in society, some of those struggles, those assumptions that are thrown their

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way, passive aggressive, microaggressions.

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And it happens within the church, but we don't always realize it because we're

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friendly, we're nice. Like, those microaggressions,

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maybe we can talk a little bit about that because microaggressions

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happen within echo chambers, happen when we're not

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challenging status quo or correcting or or changing those

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things. It doesn't mean people are bad, but it we're rubbing into

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we're bumping into those assumptions, those false assumptions.

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What would you say to doesn't matter who in the church,

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about microaggressions. How would we be able to correct that

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or edify the church as we bump into each

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other and and be human to human? How do we address microaggressions

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so we can truly love each other? It begins

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with a relationship. It's really like living life on purpose.

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So we're Christian and we're like we're walking with Christ and

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we're constantly dying to ourselves and constantly

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being refined. And Mhmm. I think a part of that

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is being aware and discerning. Like,

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I've always had that thought. Mhmm. Is that right? I mean,

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I have a different perspective Yes. Yes. From where I'm at. But

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I think for me, when I've been trying to work on that in myself

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is just like we were talking about earlier, is, like, having the

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humility to recognize that, like, we're not always

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right. Yeah. And that's how our experiences have shaped

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our world view and acknowledging that.

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It's like, oh, okay. Now that I, like, see that, I can, like, be

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willing and open to, like, see it a different way. Or for someone to

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share their experience and be like, oh, I've never I've never had to

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think about that way. Mhmm. No one's ever told me you're so articulate, and I,

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like, all I said was thank you. Because I was like, oh, thanks. Like Yeah.

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Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, acknowledging that, like, oh, that's a different

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experience Mhmm. That he had than I. And

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there's, like, reasons for that. And Yeah. Yeah. Just, like, in making that acknowledgement, I

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think Mhmm. Like you said, it comes down to being in relationship with one another

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Yeah. And being willing to ask the

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questions. Mhmm. It's like, oh, can you know, like, what has that been like for

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you? Right. You know, in relationship with one of us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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I really appreciate your response in that because, yeah, you're right.

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Proximity does matter. When we are removed and we

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objectify, we could even do that in politics, and we're like, we can't

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like Americans. And, Shannon, we love you. If you

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only got to know Shannon, who wouldn't? Because you you

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are an image bearer. You do carry, the the heart

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of Christ in that. And we could say that for x, y, and z,

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the things we see on the news, the things we read, the things we assume,

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things we are inherited for myself as a settler, things I don't

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even question because I have inherited certain things, and I hope

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we we've evolved and educated more and become less,

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like, racially divided and things like that. I I would

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like to think that, but we're still working those things out. And and what

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you've identified, both of you, in your stories is that proximity matters when we get

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to know people. Yeah. And

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opportunity to correct or confront with

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love. We we can actually be in those moments. We're not just assaulting, saying,

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how dare you do this? And that. We're not gonna actually help create

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change. But when we can sit and have coffee together Yeah. And

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say, well, this is what I'm thinking. This is what you're thinking. We we glean

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so much from each other in proximity. However,

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here's the however part. That's not always comfortable. Right? It

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means putting ourselves out there, like you said, Shannon, being vulnerable. What

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are some ways that you could suggest our listeners steps they

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can take? Maybe they are taking different steps. I would love to hear from our

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listeners. But what are some ways that have helped you

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and those in your community get closer and work

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through things in doing life together? Hello? You see? I have one.

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Yeah. Less of, like, a a relational personal

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thing, but it's something that I've done over the last few years that I found

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to be helpful. I spent a lot of time on social media. Mhmm. I'm not

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saying that that's a good thing. Mhmm. But I've challenged myself

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to follow people that I know don't necessarily

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think or view the world the same way I do. Mhmm.

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And it's helped me think about things from a different perspective.

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It's helped me understand why I believe what I believe.

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Mhmm. It's helped me be open minded on those things that are

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not like, you know, the non negotiables, those other other

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things. Mhmm. Yeah. And just challenged me to, like, just think

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about it from a different perspective. Because if I'm

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all the content I'm consuming, if it's always just this, like,

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exactly what I wanna hear Mhmm. Like, where's the learning? Yeah. Where's the

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growth? Yeah. Where's the critical thinking? Yeah. Like, what

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is the what is the cost? Like, just like this this title of the season,

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the cost of indifference. Like, I think about what am I

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missing by not taking that step to learn to

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grow from someone else? Mhmm. You know, even if it's not gonna be that I'm

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gonna change my opinion on something, I just think about, like, what

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relationships am I missing out on? What growth am I missing out

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on? And it's really helped me just in my empathy.

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Like, you know, this person has a really strong opinion about x y z.

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And even if I don't agree with it or, you know, whatever, I can see

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where they're coming from. And thank you, Lord, for

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Mhmm. You know, giving us this opportunity to learn from each other.

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Yeah. I think, that would be good. I think,

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one for me for sure is just

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listening. Mhmm. Just, like,

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closing my mouth and listening

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and seeing people's hearts

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Mhmm. And noticing their just their tone

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Mhmm. And where like, in live action,

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seeing where they're coming from,

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you begin to realize, like, oh, I wanna say a thing

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there. Mhmm. Oh, I wanna say a thing there. Mhmm. Oh, why do I wanna

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say and you begin searching yourself. It's a tool that's like, wow.

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This is just being quiet helps me Mhmm.

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Grow because I notice where my

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responses are coming from. Whether it's like, oh, I wanna defend this

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thing. Oh, wait. No. They're just explaining their POV.

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Right? I don't need to, like, put up, like, no, you shouldn't have said,

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right? It's just like sitting and listening,

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and at the end, almost all the time, I have

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a very different way of, like, communicating

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after, like, sitting down and listening. And so I'm like,

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man, I I learn a lot about who I am, what

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type of defenses I have, and and what things kinda

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like, whether it's an insecurity or what, all the different things that

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kinda flare up from sitting and listening to people

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talk. Yeah. I heard this great quote that I cannot take credit

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for, this past weekend. The opposite of

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love is not hate. The opposite of love is selfishness.

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Mhmm. And I was like, woah. It's true. In our

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household, we have this saying MCS. Oh, you're

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dealing with some MCS. It's main character syndrome when we wanna

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always see ourselves as the main character and everything else revolves around

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us. And I think that can often be the case within

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Christian settings, and it takes some intentionality

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to get over ourselves and listen to diversity, even things

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that we can't agree on. But it's a muscle that needs to be

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developed, and you're right. I love that you brought up the security issue.

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Secure believers, secure churches, it's not a

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security on I've got the dogma. I've got the the corner on God's theology

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so much as I'm securing Christ in the wonder, in

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the mysteries of working out our salvation and understanding who God is,

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which will be a lifelong eternal thing.

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There's room for all of us at this table, and it's not

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up to us to to have the reservation list of who gets their word

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in. Yeah. Exactly. Well, I think we're gonna end it there. Thank

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you so much, guys, for coming on. You lots to chew on. We're

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gonna hit up our segment now. It's time for

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Care lingo. I'm gonna throw an

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audible here. We had a I had a word lined up here for today, but

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I think we're gonna do a different one because I heard it mentioned a few

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minutes ago. And I'm like, let's let's roll with that one.

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We're gonna use the word microaggressions. Now, when

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I first heard this term, you know, it's it's those tiny

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things that just drive you nuts. It's those crumbs that

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fall off your sandwich and get stuck in your keyboard.

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Micro things that cause you to be angry or aggressive.

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You know, it's that wedgie. It's like, oh. Or

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or that dripping tap at nighttime when you

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sleep. David Shannon, I don't know if you guys have any microaggressions like

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that. What are your microaggressions if if you're going off my

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definition here? Going off of your definition, oh,

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it would be when David puts the dishes in the sink instead of in

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the dishwasher. Oh, newlywed problems. Yeah.

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Newlywed problems. But I have equally as many. Yeah. So I'll raise my

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hand for that. I'll be the first to say I do as well. No. Sure.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would be going off of that definition for

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sure. You got a rebuttal? I was you know what's crazy? I wasn't

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even gonna, like, use a marriage microaggression.

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Sorry. I wonder Which is so crazy. So

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that's fine, though. I'll take it. Microaggression.

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Goodness gracious, Murphy. Paper straws. Oh,

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yeah. It's the it's it's really the only thing about

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Canada that you don't like. Somebody paper straws. Yes. In that

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group yesterday, somebody brought Kool Aid jammers, and, like, you can't

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even stab the thing open. True story. When I go to The US,

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for meetings and stuff, I pack my bags back with plastic

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straws at restaurants. I don't blame

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you. Okay, Wendy. What is a real microaggression? I don't think

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that was the correct definition. So Yeah. Happy to share it. Microaggressions are

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actually something more subtle and often unintentional

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comments or behaviors that actually have convey

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actually an underlying prejudice or a discriminatory tone to

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it that we are often blinded to from our own

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experience. We don't mean it that way, but it's towards

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a marginalized group or towards an other, somebody that

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isn't like us. And so we might say slighted comments that

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come off wrong when you're you're the other person. They can

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often be something that's accumulated over time. They're uncontested,

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things that people will say, leading to feeling

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excluded or devalued. It's making

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the other people feel othered, when we say those

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things. Alright. Microaggressions. There you have it. Again,

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thanks so much for coming on. Thanks for having us. You guys are great.

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So listeners, if this conversation resonated with you or made you think of

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someone that would benefit from this conversation, I encourage you to share

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it with them. That's how we're gonna grow the podcast. And, hey, remember, you can

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join us on our Care Impact Facebook. We have the Care Impact

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podcast group there where we have conversations with each other, the

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latest news, and you can even get your word in for the CareLingo

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segments once in a while. So we would love to have you join the conversation

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there as well. So until next time, remember to stay curious.

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Thank you for joining us on Journey with Care. To get more information on

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weekly episodes, upcoming opportunities, or to connect with our

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community, visit journeywithcare.ca, or find Care Impact

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links and all the links related to this episode. Share your thoughts,

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leave us a message, and be part of a network of individuals journeying in

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About the Podcast

Journey With Care
Equipping communities and the Church to love neighbours well
The conversations that inspire curious Canadians on their journey of faith and living life on purpose in community. Join us for thought-provoking conversations that inspire you to live a life of purpose and connect with like-minded individuals. Discover actionable insights, practical tools, and inspiring stories from leaders who are shaping the future of faith, business, and community. Together, let's disrupt the status quo and create a world where faith and entrepreneurship intersect. Become part of a community that is passionate about making a difference.
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