The Privilege of Quiet: Advocacy That Lets Others Be Heard
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Description
What does it mean to truly advocate for others?
Marie Christian joins Wendi Park and Johan Heinrichs to explore the idea that advocacy is not about taking over the conversation but knowing when to pass the mic. Marie shares her journey from becoming a legal guardian at a young age to empowering youth in care to shape national conversations. Reflecting on her own experiences and those of the young people she's mentored, Marie underlines the importance of creating safe spaces for voices to be heard, not stifled. Through heartfelt stories, the conversation challenges listeners to check their biases, listen intently, and collaborate authentically with those they aim to serve. As communities and churches strive to care better, this conversation invites us all to embrace relational advocacy that empowers individuals and sparks meaningful change.
Time Stamps
[00:00] Introduction
[05:54] Empowering Youth Through Advocacy
[06:58] Youth Advocacy Transformation Journey
[11:54] Empowering Youth Voices
[14:34] Inspiring Leadership Through Empowerment
[17:55] Transformative Journey of Young Leaders
[22:30] Respect Young Voices: Listen & Act
[25:23] "Embrace Authenticity Through Vulnerability"
[27:15] The Role of an Advocate
[31:42] "Collaborative Community Building"
[34:44] Authentic Connection Through Attachment Styles
[37:40] Care Lingo: Felt Safety
Guest Links
Marie's Episode from Season 2 Episode 9: https://journey-with-care.captivate.fm/episode/sharing-stories-safely-empowering-young-people-in-and-from-care-marie-christian/
Other Links
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Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
An advocate is someone who either stands in front of you and speaks
Speaker:on your behalf, stands beside you and just kinda helps you
Speaker:when you forget a word or when you get too nervous, they give you the
Speaker:prompts to say what you wanted to say. Or they stand
Speaker:behind you and they're just there. They're the muscle kinda
Speaker:just pumping you up and they know that you got it, but they're just there
Speaker:in case you you just need to remember there's someone at your back.
Speaker:What if advocacy isn't about having the mic, but knowing
Speaker:when to pass it? How do we listen without trying to fix?
Speaker:Maybe real care starts when we stop assuming we know what's
Speaker:needed and start asking. This
Speaker:is Journey with Care, a podcast by Care Impact where curious
Speaker:Canadians find inspiration to love others well through real life
Speaker:stories and honest conversations.
Speaker:I was reminded this week about when I was a youth leader back,
Speaker:oh, like over twenty years ago. I was leading the youth worship
Speaker:band, you know, training and equipping them to learn to lead
Speaker:worship. And let me tell you, it was a real exercise
Speaker:in restraint. There are moments I knew I could step in,
Speaker:fix the rhythm, tighten the harmonies, or just
Speaker:take over completely. And honestly, sometimes I
Speaker:really wanted to. Not because I didn't believe in them,
Speaker:but because I did. I could see their potential.
Speaker:I just didn't want them to fail. But I had to learn
Speaker:that part of leading was letting them learn,
Speaker:letting them fail small because we learn from mistakes and
Speaker:failures. But I know I needed to let them figure things out
Speaker:and know that the stage, even in its messiness, was still
Speaker:a safe place for them to grow. My job wasn't to make them
Speaker:perfect. It was to make space. And it was the same with my own
Speaker:kids, especially my eldest son. We knew he had a gift from music
Speaker:for leading worship even at a young age. We could see it in him
Speaker:before he could. So we nudged, we encouraged,
Speaker:maybe even pushed a little too hard. And instead of stepping
Speaker:forward, he pulled back. He didn't wanna be told what to
Speaker:do, even if it was something we knew that he was made for.
Speaker:So when we finally stepped back, when we stop trying to lead
Speaker:from in front, he found his own way to the mic on
Speaker:his own terms, and now he hasn't looked back.
Speaker:Sometimes the most powerful thing we could do is get out of the
Speaker:way. Hey. Before we introduce our guest today, I wanna remind you
Speaker:that our podcast can only grow with your help. So thank
Speaker:you so much for sharing this podcast with others that you know need to hear
Speaker:it, and we would love to keep the conversation going with you on the Care
Speaker:Impact Podcast Facebook group. Check the show notes for the link.
Speaker:Alright. Now our guest today was a guest in season
Speaker:two episode nine. It was such a great conversation, and we
Speaker:wanted to have her back for this series. Marie
Speaker:Christian has spent decades building platforms for youth and care to be
Speaker:heard, not just spoken about. From becoming a guardian
Speaker:at age 20 to directing the voices network to shaping
Speaker:national conversations, she embodies advocacy that is
Speaker:grounded, relational, and radically empowering. But
Speaker:what struck us most, Marie doesn't speak for others.
Speaker:She walks beside them. Alright. I'm gonna hand it over to you,
Speaker:Wendy, to get this conversation going. I would love to, Marie.
Speaker:I am so delighted to have you back in studio here with us
Speaker:talking about a a topic that I couldn't imagine asking anyone
Speaker:else, specifically on advocacy and having
Speaker:voices be heard. Is really a part of who you
Speaker:are. But before we get in, I just have a fun question to ask
Speaker:you. Marie, if you had an unlimited
Speaker:gift card to any store, but it can't be something, like, practical, like for
Speaker:groceries or something, where would you pick and why?
Speaker:Well, I'm afraid that my choice
Speaker:fuels my addiction. I would want an unlimited
Speaker:gift card to, like, McNally Robinson because
Speaker:I just love books. And while I'm starting to enjoy
Speaker:and appreciate audiobooks, I like hardcover books.
Speaker:Where it becomes an addiction and perhaps a folly is that I
Speaker:have almost an entire cupboard full of books that I
Speaker:love and will read sooner than later. I keep
Speaker:trying to tell myself, don't buy any more books until you've read these ones,
Speaker:but sometimes they call to me. As an audio
Speaker:guy, books are great for sound absorption. So if you ever wanna
Speaker:create a podcast studio, there's that's a great excuse for you to buy
Speaker:more books, just so you know, even if you're not gonna read them. Oh, Johan,
Speaker:you are enabling me, and Marie, I couldn't agree with you more, sister.
Speaker:I am a book junkie. I love books, and there's so many.
Speaker:Like, I have to have five going at once, and there's there is a
Speaker:bookshelf right here beside me, books that I've yet to read,
Speaker:that I have good intentions for. But I would love to go
Speaker:shopping with you at McNally Robinson. Good Canadian store
Speaker:too. Yes. Yes. So in our
Speaker:series, the cost of indifference, we've been looking at a variety of ways
Speaker:that it costs society. It costs us
Speaker:when we are indifferent, particularly towards
Speaker:those that are more marginalized, more vulnerable.
Speaker:And today, I'd love to dive in with you, Marie,
Speaker:on the privilege of just staying quiet, not doing
Speaker:anything, and why advocacy matters.
Speaker:Can you tell me a little bit about I know
Speaker:this is near and dear to your heart, but tell me a little bit why
Speaker:what gets you up in the morning for advocacy when I talk about that?
Speaker:I think what gets me up in the morning when it comes to
Speaker:advocacy, just the thrill of knowing,
Speaker:especially in my experience, that young people are learning
Speaker:that their voice matters and that while
Speaker:sharing your thoughts and sharing your opinions may not lead to you getting
Speaker:what you want, The real important thing is that you were a part of
Speaker:that conversation, especially when it directly
Speaker:impacts your life or the lives of of the people who
Speaker:you care about, who are in your community. So just seeing
Speaker:that that dawning of realization on the
Speaker:faces of young people and and other folks from care
Speaker:is what makes me excited about advocacy and helping them
Speaker:to make their voice heard. When did you first realize that
Speaker:this is a is something that needs to be paid attention
Speaker:to and the power of advocacy and sharing your own story?
Speaker:Did you just wake up one day and say, you know what? This is important,
Speaker:or what brought that on for you? Sometime
Speaker:in high school, I must have learned about, youth
Speaker:engagement in some way because I remember, like, with my church youth
Speaker:group, we always had, you know, different youth leaders, always
Speaker:adults. Back then, you know, being 14, 15, you think that
Speaker:they're much older and wiser when really they must have just been 30 year olds.
Speaker:And when I turned 16, I really got this
Speaker:fierce passion for there needs to be young people on the
Speaker:youth committee. And I remember, you know, with a few of the other young people
Speaker:at the church really advocating that at least two young people
Speaker:should be also a part of the planning of youth activities.
Speaker:And which was really out of, character for me. I was a really
Speaker:shy young person, who I it made me
Speaker:nervous just to think of speaking out loud. But for some
Speaker:reason, that became really important to me at that time. But it
Speaker:wasn't until I became the legal guardian
Speaker:of my nephews and we needed to reach out for
Speaker:help to the children's advocate office and they did what
Speaker:they could, but the best thing they did was offer me a job. They
Speaker:offered me to be the youth, outreach coordinator
Speaker:and to visit different group homes and talk to kids about their rights while
Speaker:they're in care. And that's where I learned that
Speaker:it's actually a right under the United Nations Convention
Speaker:on the Rights of the Child. Article 12, you have the right
Speaker:to share your opinion on decisions that directly
Speaker:impact you. Learning that just made me feel like, oh,
Speaker:okay. So it's not just a little tingle I had in my stomach.
Speaker:Like we actually do have the right to speak and to be heard and to
Speaker:be involved. And again, it took a few years to learn that
Speaker:that doesn't necessarily mean you'll get your way. The important thing
Speaker:is you're a part of that conversation and you can be a part
Speaker:of developing whatever the next steps are. But for youth and care
Speaker:specifically, you can be a part of developing what your plan of
Speaker:care will look like. I love that, Marie, and that
Speaker:children's lives matter in the way they
Speaker:can actually have a voice over their own story
Speaker:and their own desires and wishes. And, wow, what a
Speaker:privilege that you were invested in at that young age to learn
Speaker:about the rights of, of children. How old were you
Speaker:when you took on this job? I believe I was
Speaker:20, 20 one. And also
Speaker:taking care of your nephew? Mhmm. Two of them. Yeah. When
Speaker:they came to live with me, they were nine months old and six years
Speaker:old. And by the time I finally reached out for help, they were probably
Speaker:like one and a half and seven. And again, I was still a really
Speaker:shy introverted introverted young person, but needing to
Speaker:speak up on their behalf gave me courage. And then
Speaker:being hired and then be given all this training to be able to
Speaker:communicate this to other young people gave me finally a
Speaker:voice to be able to help others find their
Speaker:voice. Can you tell me a little bit more when you did go,
Speaker:talk to the different group homes and listen to the group homes? What were some
Speaker:things that surprised you about advocacy? And as you were listening
Speaker:to so many youth, you had a great opportunity, front row seat
Speaker:to this role. What did you learn through that
Speaker:experience? Well, I learned that
Speaker:most young people's immediate perception is that
Speaker:this is bunk as they used to say. We don't say that anymore, but
Speaker:it's bunk. This isn't gonna go anywhere. They don't actually
Speaker:have a voice or or what they say doesn't really matter.
Speaker:But if they chose to stay like in connection and
Speaker:if they did have something that they needed to advocate for, then we would take
Speaker:the steps to make their voices heard. One of
Speaker:the biggest things we always worked on was,
Speaker:our immediate, feeling when we're feeling unheard is that we have to
Speaker:yell. We have to speak louder to make people hear. But I
Speaker:learned from them, from other youth in care
Speaker:advocates from across the country that sometimes
Speaker:or usually, you're mostly heard in a
Speaker:meaningful way when you can find that center of
Speaker:calm and not allow your emotions to,
Speaker:like, really override what you're trying to say. But when
Speaker:a young person is able to control
Speaker:and deliver what they want to say, then the adults
Speaker:in their lives listen even more closely. They lean in a little
Speaker:bit more to hear this quiet voice. So that was one of
Speaker:the biggest things that I learned and that the other young people learned as well
Speaker:that they can make their voice heard. It doesn't have to be a screen.
Speaker:We can figure out just how to communicate effectively,
Speaker:to make sure that they're being heard. Wow. That is
Speaker:really powerful and so empowering for
Speaker:youth to understand that their voice
Speaker:matters, but to bring yourself to a place of calm, to be able to
Speaker:gently speak truth to power because
Speaker:there is a bit of a power imbalance even just age wise. And and we
Speaker:right now, we're talking about the young and the old or the those in care
Speaker:and not in care, but you could put it into variety of context,
Speaker:of different sectors, social sectors where some are empowered and
Speaker:some not. But those that would be considered less
Speaker:privileged to have a voice, to learn how to have
Speaker:that voice is so needed in our
Speaker:society. And I just know fast forward, I don't know
Speaker:how many years, but I met you, oh, was it ten years
Speaker:ago maybe when, you were the executive director for
Speaker:Voices working with youth aging out of
Speaker:care? Can you tell me a little bit how you went
Speaker:on and were training young people how to share
Speaker:that voice? And, man, is that powerful, but tell me about that.
Speaker:Sure. So while I was at the advocate's office, there
Speaker:was a young person who used to come in pretty often to sit with the
Speaker:advocate, Janet Merwalt at that time. And I just
Speaker:heard wondering like, who is this young person? And she walks with so much
Speaker:confidence. And they told me, oh, she's the director of the
Speaker:youth and care network. But she was just finishing her term at that time,
Speaker:so the position was open. I applied and then I just
Speaker:kept calling and asking. And finally, I got an
Speaker:interview and was hired. So coming into this role
Speaker:at Voices, I decided, and this might sound
Speaker:cheesy, but I just kind of prayed every day, like, God, what do you
Speaker:want me to do while I'm here? So my main mission just
Speaker:became to like, just love. Like, all of those things that
Speaker:I felt that I missed just because of my own
Speaker:experience of childhood, lots of transiency in and out of care,
Speaker:whatnot. How can we just love these other young
Speaker:people in and from care and give them that family experience?
Speaker:All the all the best things that you hope families give to their children,
Speaker:how can we make sure that happens? And one of those things was
Speaker:a voice. Like I had said a few times already, I was
Speaker:super shy and afraid to speak up as a young person. So I wanted to
Speaker:make sure that any young people who interacted with the network,
Speaker:that that was one of the first things that they learned, that their voice matters
Speaker:not to be afraid or even when you are afraid, let's find a way to
Speaker:make your voice heard anyway. And you've been leading
Speaker:by example too, just in the way you've you've spoken out in
Speaker:media and in in radio, different ways that I I've heard you
Speaker:speak up. And when you hear your voice coming through in different
Speaker:settings, there's some confidence, but you're not coming over confident
Speaker:either. You're not, like, yelling and saying, we've gotta change child
Speaker:welfare, and you're not coming across angry at all, which I've
Speaker:really appreciate because it invites people to the table to to hear what
Speaker:you have to say. And people are leaning in, and people have put you in
Speaker:places of leadership time and again. It's an affirmation
Speaker:that what you're doing is on the right track. And and
Speaker:I know we've invited you to different events in the past, and
Speaker:and you are a big proponent of not speaking
Speaker:for people but with people. And you've been empowering
Speaker:young adults, young, kids aging out of care
Speaker:to share their stories, and we've had them be keynote and and
Speaker:panel discussions. And they have shared their stories.
Speaker:I imagine there there's a lot of coaching, and
Speaker:I see a lot of loving mama bear. They look up to you
Speaker:not just, oh, this is this is my boss or somebody that I
Speaker:I program I go to. There's a familial side to
Speaker:to what you offer there. And those
Speaker:voices are so powerful. And here you are in the background
Speaker:or beside them with your arm around them. I just
Speaker:beaming mama bear pride for them speaking up and
Speaker:so well. Tell me what that's like to hear other
Speaker:people at that empowered stage, to share their
Speaker:story. It is one of the
Speaker:best feelings in the world because we always start with
Speaker:practicing sharing our stories just amongst ourselves
Speaker:and really emphasizing safe storytelling.
Speaker:Yes. We wanna make an impact. We wanna touch people's hearts and we wanna see
Speaker:change happen, but not as a cost of your own
Speaker:mental, emotional health or the our
Speaker:listeners. So learning safe storytelling and then
Speaker:watching them practice safe storytelling or when we
Speaker:have an occasion to watch how other groups
Speaker:might have youth panels when they turn to me and they
Speaker:say, oh my gosh, is someone supporting that young person? Because that young person is
Speaker:not sharing their story safely. I'm like, okay. So you get it. You get
Speaker:like just that fine balance between I'm sharing my story and I'm
Speaker:potentially harming myself and my listeners. So
Speaker:watching them just grow in that ability to share their story, to share it
Speaker:meaningfully, to receive feedback or to
Speaker:answer questions in a way that honors their story is so
Speaker:exciting because you know that they're gonna, they could move
Speaker:on and and continue to use this skill in every area of
Speaker:their lives.
Speaker:Without going into the specifics of individual stories,
Speaker:can you give me some examples of what it did for
Speaker:them to be able to be given the mic or be given those opportunities
Speaker:to share their stories? How did that add value,
Speaker:confidence, you name it, to their lives moving
Speaker:forward in in in many ways? Well, I'm
Speaker:thinking of a few of our of our young
Speaker:leaders who, you know, came in
Speaker:just feeling angry with the system and angry with the world, but
Speaker:by finding that sense of belonging and community at the
Speaker:network and being able to practice their stories,
Speaker:sharing skills or to to work together to advocate on an
Speaker:issue. Many of them have gone on to just do
Speaker:amazing things, whether I'm thinking of one who is a director of
Speaker:another child welfare agency right now, others who are
Speaker:lawyers, teachers, nurses, others who have been able to,
Speaker:maybe even most significantly, they've been able to
Speaker:interrupt the system cycle in their own life where their parents
Speaker:were in care. Now they were in care. They've lost their
Speaker:children into care, but they've learned how to center
Speaker:themselves and have a conversation with their worker
Speaker:so that they could develop a plan to bring their child home. And now they've
Speaker:reunified their family or others who were able
Speaker:to center themselves, have a conversation with the agency and
Speaker:avoid having their kids apprehended at all. Just being able
Speaker:to speak without letting it
Speaker:be completely emotional, which for some reason just shuts listeners
Speaker:down, but to be able to speak and say, this is what I need. This
Speaker:is what my family needs. So those are some of the
Speaker:most impactful ways that I've seen, young
Speaker:people continue to use their voice after their time with the
Speaker:voices. I think some of the more fun advocacy
Speaker:stuff that we've done as a network or that we did as a network while
Speaker:I was on staff there was things like our garbage
Speaker:bag fashion show, where the young people really
Speaker:wanted to raise awareness of the frequency of moves while kids are in
Speaker:care. And not only the frequency, but the
Speaker:way that their items were just thrown into garbage bags and kinda like
Speaker:ready at the door when they got off from school or in the trunk when
Speaker:they were just getting picked up. And they thought the
Speaker:best way to communicate the need for planned and thoughtful
Speaker:placements was to have a fashion show where all of the clothes are made out
Speaker:of garbage bags and they were like, garbage bags are great for
Speaker:fashion, not for moving. You know? So they were able
Speaker:to make their voice heard in a really creative way and in a really impactful
Speaker:way. I still hear from people. And this fashion show was a few
Speaker:years ago. I still hear from folks about the
Speaker:impact of watching them and participating in the show, what that
Speaker:did for for them as listeners. So I love
Speaker:that. And being able to include some humor because
Speaker:there's some camaraderie and something that you mentioned earlier on, there's a
Speaker:sense of belonging and that safety to share your stories
Speaker:that they weren't just going out there, in a loudspeaker and sharing their
Speaker:stories in a vulnerable, exploitative way. There was a sense
Speaker:of safety net in and how to share the stories. That was a safe
Speaker:place to do it. And I think that's so valuable and can be
Speaker:overlooked when we say, oh, we just need to listen. That's
Speaker:important. But let's talk to the listener
Speaker:that may be part of a church that has a heart for their community
Speaker:that says, you know what, Marie? I love what you're saying here, and I want
Speaker:people to have a voice. I wanna listen. I've been hearing this over and over
Speaker:in the episodes. We need to listen better. Talk to that
Speaker:individual. Talk to me. How can I be a good listener
Speaker:to the story? What do I need to know so that I can
Speaker:be a helpful participant in their journey?
Speaker:Well, I think to the average person who just
Speaker:wants to listen, I would
Speaker:say, a, thank you. That's excellent.
Speaker:And b, check your biases. It's
Speaker:absolutely natural that the way we were raised, the
Speaker:environment we were raised in, the community we were raised in, we will have
Speaker:certain beliefs about how things work in life. So if
Speaker:you're truly ready to listen, then just be aware that your own
Speaker:experiences might tint what you hear
Speaker:and then be willing to set those aside. And like, be willing to tell yourself,
Speaker:okay, just because I was raised this way doesn't mean everyone had that
Speaker:experience. At the national level, we have Youth in Care
Speaker:Canada and one of our slogans there is
Speaker:ask, listen, believe, act.
Speaker:So ask the questions. You know, please be
Speaker:mindful never to ask a young person or anyone
Speaker:to to to share too many details of their story. I know it can be
Speaker:really interesting and you wanna know like the nitty gritty, but
Speaker:be mindful of avenues. But ask if you if you have a question, ask,
Speaker:listen to their response, believe that what they are
Speaker:telling you is true, even if it is from their experience. And if
Speaker:they're a young person, yes, their perspective will be
Speaker:limited because they're young and maybe they don't see the whole picture, but
Speaker:believe them when they say that that's how it impacted them and
Speaker:then act on it. If there's something you can do to
Speaker:either help that young person make their voice heard or to
Speaker:respond to what they're saying, do so. And if you're
Speaker:not sure, ask that young person, how can I help? Are you just telling
Speaker:me this because you need to vent or what do you wanna do with this?
Speaker:But make sure that there's some action behind what
Speaker:you've heard and learned from the person who's sharing with you.
Speaker:That is really helpful, and you've put a framework around that.
Speaker:It it leads me to wonder, how can I be that safe
Speaker:person to listen well so that
Speaker:even if I come with good intentions and I I'm you're
Speaker:right? We have biases. We just do. We come with our
Speaker:framework or worldview. It's not good or bad necessarily. It's just that
Speaker:we come with those biases. And let's say I I do those things,
Speaker:yet how do I be that safe person for the person
Speaker:speaking up and be an ally with them?
Speaker:Yeah. Well, I think you just have to be yourself
Speaker:because we can't be all things to all people, but we can be
Speaker:ourselves and the person who needs us will find
Speaker:us. You know, back when and I'm currently on leave from
Speaker:voices. So when I say back when I'm referring to when I was
Speaker:on staff, hiring staff
Speaker:or recruiting practicum students, they would
Speaker:come in and they would compare themselves to maybe a staff who's
Speaker:been there longer or a volunteer who just seems to have a really good
Speaker:connection with the kids. And they oh, I don't have I'm not I'm I don't
Speaker:have that kind of energy. And I would remind them that it's okay.
Speaker:Some people, their personality is a three. You're always cool as
Speaker:a cucumber, and you're always here. Some people are always operating at an
Speaker:eight. Super high energy, gonna kick a ball, gonna run somewhere.
Speaker:Young people will go to what they
Speaker:need when they need it. And if you are just comfortable being
Speaker:yourself, then that young person who needs a cool cucumber, they
Speaker:will come find you and they will come talk to you. That young person who
Speaker:needs to be pumped up and they need a 10, they will go find a
Speaker:person who operates at a 10. Just be cool and
Speaker:comfortable with who you are, where you are, and the person who needs
Speaker:you will find you. Oh, that's so good, Marie,
Speaker:because that really underscores the the fact that we need to be who God
Speaker:created us to be. And and that requires certain vulnerability,
Speaker:wouldn't you say? Like, often we can mask that we have to be a certain
Speaker:thing, especially if we're thinking of ourselves in a helper or a listener type of
Speaker:role as if we have something to fix or let's just face it.
Speaker:Sometimes that's the the biases we come into when somebody wants
Speaker:to share something that is maybe a little harder than we might have
Speaker:experienced, and we we do care for the marginalized or those
Speaker:that are in a vulnerable situation. However,
Speaker:being who we are, you're inviting us to vulnerability.
Speaker:You're inviting us to be seen for who we are and all the
Speaker:imperfections included. And that goes across the board.
Speaker:It's not just for those that are coming from difficult
Speaker:upbringings. Aren't we all longing for
Speaker:genuine connections to be who we are and know that
Speaker:we're enough that way, that there's people that that we're created to
Speaker:connect with in our natural beings, that is
Speaker:a very powerful presence without having to contrive
Speaker:anything or be something for somebody. That's so
Speaker:good. Now I have a question about your role with you you are
Speaker:an advocate. You continue to, like, be an advocate in some
Speaker:very needed spaces in our our society
Speaker:across Canada, And yet there's also a
Speaker:sense that I hear you saying, I'm not gonna speak up for, I'm
Speaker:gonna speak up with. How do you know that balance
Speaker:of of advocating versus listening and pulling back and
Speaker:letting other voices be heard so that we're not
Speaker:giving them the mic. They they have the mic already and we're not stepping in
Speaker:their way. Tell me a bit, how do you how do you balance that
Speaker:out? Well, way, way, way back
Speaker:when I started in this, one of the first things I learned about
Speaker:was what is an advocate? And so now when I'm talking
Speaker:to other folks, whether it's young people or adults, I use the
Speaker:same model. An advocate is someone who either
Speaker:stands in front of you and speaks on your behalf, stands
Speaker:beside you and just kinda helps you when you forget a word or when you
Speaker:get too nervous, they give you the prompts to say what you wanted to say,
Speaker:or they stand behind you and they're just there. They're the
Speaker:muscle kinda just pumping you up and they know that you got it, but
Speaker:they're just there in case you you just need to remember there's someone at your
Speaker:back. The only way you can be an effective advocate is
Speaker:to ask the person you're advocating for how do they want you
Speaker:to be in this moment? Do they need you in front,
Speaker:beside, or behind? And so in my work,
Speaker:there have been times where, you know, as a network and then
Speaker:in my role right now where, yes, I need to be the person standing
Speaker:in front and maybe speaking on behalf of echoing the voices that
Speaker:I've heard. But as often as possible,
Speaker:it's nice to be able to stand just beside someone. Stand beside a
Speaker:young person who knows what they wanna say. They're feeling a little nervous and you're
Speaker:just there. You, you know, you've you've met with them so you can point to
Speaker:them. Okay. Yeah. You wanted to raise this point. You wanted to say that. Okay.
Speaker:And then the best times are when I'm just there because they they
Speaker:want another person in the room, but they are fully capable of speaking
Speaker:for themselves. So, yeah, when it comes to advocacy,
Speaker:whether a local or a national level, it's either recognizing
Speaker:where I need to be or asking the person
Speaker:I'm speaking or I'm advocating for where they need me to
Speaker:be. Wow. So profound. Just ask.
Speaker:I love I love the the different positionings that you find
Speaker:yourself in, and I can identify with situations people come in
Speaker:mind where I've had to do all three in different different
Speaker:scenarios. But it really begins with
Speaker:asking the individual, listening, what do you want? And it might look different.
Speaker:Their answer might look different than what you think you could provide for them. Maybe
Speaker:you have a an amazing program or an amazing suggestion
Speaker:or whatever, but yet recognizing the need
Speaker:of them having that advocacy need already voiced between
Speaker:you and them, that they are advocating what they need. It it
Speaker:begins in your relationship, not just in what they say outward and
Speaker:what they do and how you support them. Right. It's I don't like the
Speaker:word giving them their voice because they already have one.
Speaker:It's empowering. Empowering. You're inviting their voice into
Speaker:the conversation. What do you want? It is empowering. Mhmm.
Speaker:Yeah. When we talk about advocates and
Speaker:we make a web of advocates with young people, we
Speaker:often start with the circle right in the middle of the web.
Speaker:Who is your best advocate? Sometimes they'll say my mom,
Speaker:my auntie, my cat. Who is your best advocate? Who's the
Speaker:first person who knows when there's something not quite right?
Speaker:Me. Yes. You are your own best advocate. So
Speaker:let's start with there. And again, going back to just using your voice
Speaker:to be able to say, something's not right. May not know what
Speaker:exactly is wrong or how to fix it, but just having
Speaker:that self awareness that something's not right and I need help. We'll go
Speaker:from there. Maria, I'd love for you to to talk
Speaker:to the church for a moment. Churches
Speaker:that want to care, that want to do well in their community
Speaker:and journeying with community. We've got a lot of
Speaker:programs. We've got a lot of ideas of what we could
Speaker:do to make our communities better. What role does advocacy
Speaker:play in that, and how how might that even disrupt
Speaker:I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe there's a leading question, but how that might
Speaker:disrupt just asking them what they what would you like, how that
Speaker:would disrupt our everyday program, our doing, our
Speaker:trying to do well for the neighbor. Let me just create that as
Speaker:an a statement. That's a disruptive thing right there
Speaker:Mhmm. For a church. Do you have anything else to add to that thinking of
Speaker:a church context that's wanting to care for others?
Speaker:Well, I think, like, it just brings me back to everything
Speaker:I've learned about community building and allyship,
Speaker:which I was told the other day, folks are moving away from the
Speaker:word allyship and more towards collaborators and
Speaker:conspirators. Well, I can't remember the exact reason why, but it was
Speaker:more disruptive to think of people coming alongside as
Speaker:collaborators of change. But at the heart of community
Speaker:building comes that conversation,
Speaker:relationship building with community and then asking them, how can we
Speaker:help? It's great to come up with programs
Speaker:and like really well meaning activities, but
Speaker:if it's not what the community is asking for, then you're
Speaker:doing a good thing, but it's it's not gonna be sustainable. It's not gonna
Speaker:be meaningful. So as a church, whether it's specifically
Speaker:with that church community or if they want to be
Speaker:doing meaningful work with the community around their building,
Speaker:it starts with a conversation and relationship building that
Speaker:will lead to community building. And when you have that relationship, you can
Speaker:say, okay. What do you need? How can we be more helpful?
Speaker:But Marie, getting into relationship with others, that's
Speaker:messy though. What if they say something that I'm not prepared for? What
Speaker:if they they want something that we've never done things in
Speaker:that way? Are we now the puppet to whatever the
Speaker:demands of the community? I'm I'm just being devil's advocate
Speaker:here, but how do we respond to that? I imagine
Speaker:and the hundreds and and thousands of kids that you've journeyed
Speaker:alongside with. You deal with a lot of
Speaker:complicated, sad,
Speaker:nuanced, happy, sad, you know, complicated
Speaker:stories that you haven't been their savior,
Speaker:but you've been their collaborator.
Speaker:What's that like? Give us some insight on how to be good
Speaker:collaborators as the church walking in the messy
Speaker:and not fixing people? I think it goes back to
Speaker:what we were talking about whether you're a level three or a level 10 in
Speaker:terms of energy, just being who you are. So
Speaker:if you've built relationship with your community and they
Speaker:are saying, we want every lawn on this street
Speaker:painted purple. You don't have to just jump and get purple paint.
Speaker:Keep having that conversation. Why? What does this mean to you? How
Speaker:would this change things? And I think after you've been able to have
Speaker:that conversation in a in a good way, you will get
Speaker:distilled down to like the actual heart of what that person or that
Speaker:community is looking for. Our community is messy and we want things to
Speaker:look pretty. Okay. Alright. This we can do.
Speaker:You'll figure out how to get to the heart
Speaker:of what is needed and what is wanted. And then maybe from there, you
Speaker:can grow into, well, this is what we're actually capable of doing. Does this
Speaker:work? I love that because what you're getting at is what I
Speaker:often refer to attachment styles. In a community attachment, we don't wanna
Speaker:be preoccupied attachment style where we're like, if I do this, will you like
Speaker:me now? Or if I do this, will I will I gain your approval so
Speaker:that I can show like, that can be almost pandering to
Speaker:and sort of virtue signaling just because we wanna do just
Speaker:so you know that I like you rather than going at the heart of
Speaker:what is it about that and and finding those common denominators
Speaker:that I guarantee no matter in the diversity in
Speaker:that room and that conversation around the table or wherever you find
Speaker:yourself, when you get to know each other, there are
Speaker:common denominators, and being your authentic self can
Speaker:probably reach to their authentic need when you you
Speaker:have what one of my friends says, a thousand cups of
Speaker:tea. Sometimes it takes up that much, sometimes not so
Speaker:long, but finding those common things that you can that's
Speaker:true collaboration. Mhmm. Alright, Marie. To wrap
Speaker:up here, if there was one thing that our listeners could take away that we
Speaker:could maybe put into practice, what would
Speaker:that one challenge be for us that we could grow that
Speaker:muscle? I would direct everyone back
Speaker:to ask, listen, believe, act, which I know
Speaker:is maybe four things when you break it down. But and I'm thinking
Speaker:particularly, I saw, a post on
Speaker:Facebook about the missing and murdered
Speaker:encampment at Prairie Green. A body was found. A mother was
Speaker:found. And I know that there were a lot of feelings around the
Speaker:call to search the landfills. And and everyone's entitled
Speaker:to their feelings, but even if this conversation only happens
Speaker:with yourself, ask, why did I feel that way? And how do
Speaker:I feel now? Listen and honor those feelings that are
Speaker:coming up for you. Believe yourself.
Speaker:Sometimes we like to believe it or not, lie to ourselves about how we
Speaker:felt. No. If you had biases, check those biases and believe that
Speaker:that's where you were and believe that you can
Speaker:have a different idea about these social issues and then
Speaker:act on them. If there's a way to show support
Speaker:for the rest of the search that's happening or
Speaker:to organizations that do work with missing and murdered indigenous women and
Speaker:girls or any social issue, it doesn't have to be that one. That's just the
Speaker:one that's kind of front of mind for me right now because it's
Speaker:it's it's front and forward right now. I would challenge listeners
Speaker:to just do those four things, ask, listen, believe,
Speaker:and then act on it. That's a great call to
Speaker:action. We'll we'll put that in the show notes and we'll put it on our
Speaker:social media for those that want to make sure that you're following up with our
Speaker:calls to action because we wanna take these conversations from the head to the heart,
Speaker:into action, not just listening, going one ear out the
Speaker:other. So now we're gonna do our segment, Anne Marie. We're gonna get you
Speaker:included in this because you could probably speak to it. It is time
Speaker:for Care lingo.
Speaker:This is the part of the show where we give a term or
Speaker:phrase to our listening audience that they may or may not be
Speaker:familiar with. That's kind of in the caring circles, words that we might overuse
Speaker:sometimes, but they don't know what we're talking about. So our word or phrase
Speaker:today is felt safety. And I know when I
Speaker:first you know, I'm a huge Indiana Jones fan, if
Speaker:you don't know this. But, like, felt safety for me is, like,
Speaker:taking care of that beloved felt hat, that fedora, that
Speaker:treasured felt accessory, keeping it safe from harm, you know. Like, picture this,
Speaker:you're racing through the jungle, you're dodging those booby traps, and and
Speaker:just as you're about to escape, your fedora falls off. Do you risk
Speaker:your life to grab that fedora? Of course you do,
Speaker:because felt safety means never letting go of your hat, you
Speaker:know, your dignity. Don't let that get compromised. You gotta
Speaker:protect that felt. It's felt safety. So that's what I
Speaker:thought it might mean. I don't know about you, Marie. You probably know the real
Speaker:definition. What what does felt safety mean to you, Marie?
Speaker:Well, okay. I'm glad that Indiana Jones is what popped
Speaker:up for you because the first thing that popped up for me was
Speaker:Sunday school back in the eighties, where they
Speaker:had a felt board and the teacher usually
Speaker:sister Kai Fling, she would she would have these little felt
Speaker:figures and they would move across the board as she told the story.
Speaker:I love stories. So that is definitely a memory of of
Speaker:safety for me, and it was all in felt. So,
Speaker:yeah, that's felt safety for me. But, I mean, more
Speaker:realistically, felt safety is just that sense of safety
Speaker:that someone has when they're in a space. And I guess when
Speaker:they add the word felt to it, it might not be necessarily,
Speaker:an obviously safe place, but for whatever reason, they
Speaker:feel safe in that space. Well and, like, I I was
Speaker:taken back to that too and how we would try to create some
Speaker:maybe not so great words and stories out of those felt things when the when
Speaker:the teacher was out of the room. So felt safety means locking some of those
Speaker:things up when you're leaving the kids alone with that felt, I think. Oh, we
Speaker:can have a lot of fun. I'd like to include to the felt safety
Speaker:idea. Sometimes people think they're creating a safe environment,
Speaker:because I'm like, well, we've got fire extinguishers. We got our physical
Speaker:safety. I've told everybody, like, we've made it warm and
Speaker:inclusive, and and yet it's based on not
Speaker:what we create for safety. It's what that person
Speaker:comes in with, we have to earn that secure
Speaker:attachment. We have to earn that safety space so that they feel
Speaker:secure. And it's not just a measure of what we
Speaker:do. We we have to again ask, what is it that you need,
Speaker:so that we can establish that safety? Yeah. I've I've heard of more and
Speaker:more places moving away from saying that they've created a
Speaker:safe space to just a safer space. They've done
Speaker:as much as they can do to prepare, but, yeah, it'll come through
Speaker:conversation of what an individual actually needs to feel
Speaker:safer in a space. Yeah. Because one what one
Speaker:person needs to feel safe will look different from the other. So there's not
Speaker:just a one, two, three manual, and this is what you do, to
Speaker:create safety. It's really including that's adding that voice,
Speaker:advocacy. Here we go again. Asking what is it that you
Speaker:need so that we have felt safety. Well, there you have it. Felt
Speaker:safety, and I still recommend you protect those beloved
Speaker:fedoras as well. That is very important.
Speaker:Huge thank you to Marie again for sharing her stories and insight
Speaker:today. It's great to have you on again. We had it
Speaker:was just over two years ago that you were on the podcast the first time
Speaker:where we were sitting in your office. So, I'm gonna put them in the show
Speaker:notes too for listeners to go back to that because that was also a great
Speaker:episode. I know over a 50 people tuned in to that one to listen to
Speaker:what you had to say. And thank you to our listeners for being a big
Speaker:part of the Journey with Care community. You can go on you can go on
Speaker:Facebook and find our podcast group there where we will share some of
Speaker:these CareLingo segments, and you can have your voice, what you think some
Speaker:of these words mean, and just get in on the conversation. If you enjoyed this
Speaker:episode, share it with someone else. That's how we grow it. Especially
Speaker:if you thought about someone during this episode and say, hey, they need to hear
Speaker:this. So send it to that person. Alright. And next week,
Speaker:we got our second thoughts again where Wendy and I get to analyze what you
Speaker:said, Marie. And not really, but it's just processing
Speaker:all the wealth of information and stories that you brought
Speaker:us today and how we can take it even further. So thank you so much.
Speaker:Thank you for having me. Thank you for joining us on
Speaker:Journey with Care. To get more information on weekly episodes,
Speaker:upcoming opportunities, or to connect with our community, visit
Speaker:journeywithcare.ca, or find Care Impact on Facebook and
Speaker:Instagram, or just check the show notes for these links and all the
Speaker:links related to this episode. Share your thoughts, leave us a
Speaker:message, and be part of a network of individuals journeying in faith and
Speaker:purpose. Together, let's discover how we can make a meaningful
Speaker:impact.
